Gary, It is not solved but understood... In fact we are not playing. J The main goal was to get a new (good, better) definition for some symbols without reinventing the wheel.... (setup with different path and so on..) As long as Allegro still works as we expected, no problem: Old designs use old symbols definition or new one in case of a refresh. And new designs automatically use new symbols... nothing dangerous. The trap is the clipboard copy/paste. Now we know that... So after a refresh and then a clipboard copy/paste, we only have to take care that a new refresh has to be done to get only one symbol definition. But as it is a "human" process, it would be better to have an automatic control for that. Thus the problem is almost solved, thanks. Cheers. William. From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macindoe, Gary Sent: 15 September 2010 18:58 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: symbols form libraries and BRD database Hey William, Sounds like you're playing some games, be careful! Also, you can really fine tune your library paths within a design: Setup -> User Preferences, Library under Paths. Click on the box in the Value column (e.g. for "psmpath"), then in the pop-up window check the "Expand" box, bottom left. This will modify the library paths only for the design you are in. So is your problem solved? Regards, Gary MacIndoe Senior PCB Layout Designer Contract - Kelly Services Covidien EbD R&D 5920 Longbow Drive Boulder, CO 80301 303.476.7458 www.covidien.com From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of William Billereau Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:34 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: symbols form libraries and BRD database Hi Gary. Thanks for your reply. Before making the test you suggest, I just checked that placing a new part uses the new definition in 16.3. In fact, no, fortunately. If I have a c0805 placed and I place a new one, the symbol is the same. The problem is somewhere else: I think that I first made a "refresh symbols", then the definition was the new one. After that, I used a clipboard copy/paste for similar blocks from an old board which was using an old definition of the C0805. As the symbol definition is written in the clipboard the "pasted" components also have the old definition. So this behavior can also happen with any release of Cadence.. Very dangerous.... William. From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Macindoe, Gary Sent: 15 September 2010 17:37 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: symbols form libraries and BRD database Hey William, I didn't see any replies, so I'll through something out. I have no idea if this will work, but you could try it: Before you Import Logic, you could temporarily "break" the path to your libraries (e.g. rename the library directories, edit your env file etc.). If the libraries can't be found, it can't grab the latest versions of your symbols. Regards, Gary MacIndoe Senior PCB Layout Designer Contract - Kelly Services Covidien EbD R&D 5920 Longbow Drive Boulder, CO 80301 303.476.7458 www.covidien.com From: icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:icu-pcb-forum-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of William Billereau Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:03 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] symbols form libraries and BRD database Hello All. We have a problem that seems to be appeared in the 16.3 (to be confirmed). If you start a BRD from another containing some symbols definition, before this release 16.3, if you added a new component using this symbol definition Allegro took the definition embedded in the BRD. If the symbol has been modified on the disk, you had to make a "refresh symbol" to get the new symbol definition in the BRD file, even for recent placed components. Now, if you place a component, it seems that Allegro reads the definition of the symbol on the disk without using the embedded one. This means that you got in the BRD old symbol definition for components already placed in the BRD and new symbol definition for newly placed component. Then, it is not really a problem within Allegro. We modified a lot of component applying IPC and LPWizard rules. One of this rule is the symbol origin. For a 0805 resistor, in the past, our symbol had the origin on pin one. Now the origin is the body center of the resistor. If you apply a refresh symbol, you have to move all previously placed resistors, nothing critical, just a little bit annoying. But the main problem is for assembly. ODB++ output or Fabmaster output contains 2 different kind of 0805 that are finally the same! It results in a displacement from the copper for some of them depending on which definition is taken first: If the first definition is the body center, then all resistors defined with origin on pin on have an offset of the half on the right or left, according to their rotation. And vice-versa. Is there a way (User Preferences?) to force Allegro to keep the embedded symbol definition for all new placed components? If not, we will have to implement an automatic refresh for all new BRD.... Thanks in advance. William.