I usually find it quicker to delete and replace modules even in Allegro Expert. I record a script that unfixes all the modules, deletes them, inserts the revised modules, and then fixes them. I try to only do module changes once a day (when I'm leaving) and just let the script crank. It's even worse when the engineers nest modules (i.e. module1 is used twice in module2, module2 is used four times module3, etc. etc. etc.) Then you have to do the same unfix/delete/insert/fix process (or unfix/update/fix process) for each "super-module". Absolutely right, Carl, an all day process. -- George Patrick Tektronix, Inc. Central Engineering, PCB Design Group P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512 Beaverton, OR 97077-0001 Phone: 503-627-5272 Fax: 503-627-5587 http://www.tektronix.com http://www.pcb-designer.com It's my opinion, not Tektronix' -----Original Message----- From: Musetti, Carl [mailto:cmusetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 11:01 To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Design re-use modules I completely agree I have databases that are 50M, and the fact that allegro isn't multi threaded it takes all day to replace those modules! This is a serious productivity hit! -----Original Message----- From: gnieski, mike [mailto:gnieski_mike@xxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:02 PM To: 'icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Design re-use modules I have not mentioned it to Cadence as I do not really have contact with Them when they visit. I have mentioned it to an in house Skill guru, due To workload it is probably not a priority. With the amount of work it takes To remove and replace 16 to 18 of these on a single board in the middle of A large design it seems to me like something worth looking at. -----Original Message----- From: Musetti, Carl [mailto:cmusetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 12:16 PM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Design re-use modules Mike Refresh modules box does not show up in the update symbols form in studio performance on 14.2 but is available in 15.2. This is the pain in the neck I was referring to. I have attached a graphic in a word doc for you to see. Your methodology is correct though and Jean Bratton's point about fixing them is also another good practice. I like your idea with the refresh working like the refresh padstack though. Have you run this by Cadence? -----Original Message----- From: gnieski, mike [mailto:gnieski_mike@xxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:56 AM To: 'icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx' Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Design re-use modules Carl and Mike, Refreshing is not a problem as long as you place and move the modules around correctly. One problem that occurs is that some designers do not recognize that the module should be moved as a group, some designers move modules with symbols, etch, vias etc turned on without the group button being selected. What generally happens is someone places the module initially off the board as a group and moves it in the method that I mentioned. If you do this multiple times and then refresh the module the refresh places the module in its initial spot off of the board. Another problem is in revision control if you have an initial release of a module into a library and say have a few boards built at initial rev, then debug the board and find that changes to the module are needed, what do you do? Make the changes to the initial module and keep the same name? Change the name of the module to reflect a rev change? If you change the name then the refresh goes out the window. What Cadence needs is some type of replace module similar to a replace padstack where you could pick an exsisting placed module and substitute it with the updated/upreved module. Not sure how this would work exactly. Another annoying thing with modules in 14.2 (havent gotten into 15 yet) is if you use one base design with multiple stackups you need a separate mdd for each unique stackup. thanks, Mike Gnieski Desciple of All World Al Craver -----Original Message----- From: Musetti, Carl [mailto:cmusetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 10:31 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Re: Design re-use modules Mike, You can not refresh modules with allegro studio, but can with expert not sure about designer. Supposedly Studio performance is the same as designer. I have studio performance and can not refresh modules which is a major pain in the neck I have no issues with placement as a matter of fact placement really save time in replicated reuse modules. Routing is quirky on allegro when you leave dangling traces to connect at the top level. Split planes are supported but sometimes nets don't get instantiated properly to the shape. No issues with ATE or Pick and Place. I can give you a lot more details feel free to call me. I wrote a paper with Gopi Rudra (Cadence Orcad Developer) on this topic and presented it at last years ICU conference. This is the kind of material and education you can get from attending the ICU conferences. It is not to late to sign up for this years! http://www.cadenceusers.org/conferences/current/CFP.html ************************************************************ * Carl T. Musetti Infinicon Systems * * Tel: 610-233-4828 680 American Ave, Suite 100 * * Fax: 610-233-4777 King of Prussia, PA 19406 * * cmusetti@xxxxxxxxxxxxx * ************************************************************ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Barham [mailto:mbarham@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:51 AM To: icu-pcb-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [PCB_FORUM] Design re-use modules Hi everyone, Can anyone share their use of design re-use modules with Orcad/Allegro ? I have modules working with Orcad10/Allegro15.1 but is anyone using them for place/route/Split planes/ATE? And does anyone ever 'refresh' the modules ? Appears in need of a strict process control but then again what doesn't ! Regards, Mike Barham _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ----------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe/unsubscribe: Send a message to icu-pcb-forum-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with a subject of subscribe or unsubscribe To view the archives of this list please login at //www.freelists.org. Our list name is icu-pcb-forum or go to //www.freelists.org/archives/icu-pcb-forum/ Problems or Questions: Send an email to icu-pcb-forum-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Want to post a job listing ? DON'T DO IT HERE! Better yet, join our jobs listing forum. 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