[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 20 Dec 2011 ibis-atm meeting
- From: Mike LaBonte <mike@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: IBIS-ATM <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:43:47 -0500
Minutes from the 20 Dec 2011 ibis-atm meeting are attached.
Mike
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 20 Dec 2011
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Agilent: * Fangyi Rao
Radek Biernacki
Altera: * David Banas
Ansys: Samuel Mertens
* Dan Dvorscak
* Curtis Clark
Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd
Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg
* Ambrish Varma
Feras Al-Hawari
Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli
Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan
Syed Huq
Ericsson: Anders Ekholm
IBM: Greg Edlund
Intel: Michael Mirmak
LSI Logic: Wenyi Jin
Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari
Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo
Zhen Mu
* Arpad Muranyi
* Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov
Micron Technology: Randy Wolff
NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts
Nokia-Siemens Networks: * Eckhard Lenski
QLogic Corp. James Zhou
Sigrity: Brad Brim
Kumar Keshavan
* Ken Willis
SiSoft: * Walter Katz
Todd Westerhoff
Doug Burns
* Mike LaBonte
Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel
ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi
Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow
* Bob Ross
TI: Casey Morrison
Alfred Chong
Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman
Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla
The meeting was lead by Arpad Muranyi
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Opens:
- Arpad: There will be no meeting next week
- The next meeting will be 3 Jan 2012
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Call for patent disclosure:
- None
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Review of ARs:
- Walter update BIRD 123
- Done, posted in the work archive
- Walter create jitter derivation document
- Done
- Ken propose reduced set of jitter parameters
- Decision to support dual models causes a problem
- Dual sets of jitter params are required
- This AR is done
- David write mathematical description of combined Dj proposal
- Done, language is in BIRD 123
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New Discussion:
BIRD 123.3 draft 5:
- Walter: There have been extensive discussions with David, James and Fangyi
- Ken: I have suggested deprecating the old jitter parameters
- Walter: They still are useful where a PDF table is given
- Walter: Some changes:
- Usage Out has been removed
- EDA tools should use last returned value from each Getwave
- Don't understand about "how EDA tool can input the clocks"
- Arpad: That may be an old idea, no longer valid
- Ken: TX Jitter is redundant but RX is not?
- Walter: TX Jitter supports PDF, which the new parameters do not support
- Ken What if TX Jitter is defined in both old and new ways?
- Walter: Combine them
- Ken: We should have guidance for developers
- Fangyi: That is a good idea
- Walter: It would be best to discuss that in email
- Arpad: There are a few typos in the BIRD
- Arpad made some corrections which will be sent to Walter
- The BIRD draft will be voted for submission next meeting
- David: Is there any doubt about the intended use of the RX ... parameters?
- Walter: It is well documented
- Vladimir: What is the final decision on TX jitter deprecation?
- Walter: We should keep them but TX DCD can no longer be Out
- Ken: I would prefer to take the old ones out and enhance the new ones
- Arpad: We should keep the overlap for one release
- Walter: Deprecation is usually a warning of future removal of support
AR: Arpad send BIRD 123 changes from today to Walter
Arpad showed a presentation on Usage Out parameters:
- Slide 2:
- Arpad: The phrase "Output only" might be confused
- It should mean the value always comes from the DLL
- Walter: Correct
- Arpad: "All parameters must be ..." requires Out parameters
to have a value in the AMI file
- How would these values be used?
- Walter: It should be ignored
- Ambrish: It could restrict the expected return values
- The EDA tool can check the returns
- Walter: What action does the tool take if the DLL returns a random string?
- We can't specify all possible return values
- Arpad: Is Default supposed to initialize something?
- Walter: No
- It is the default for a selection list in a GUI
- The default may be between the smallest and largest value
- But there should be an implicit default otherwise
- Bob: Default replaces Typ
- BIRD 140.2 species this
- Walter: The Default must be an item in the list
- Arpad: BIRD 140 specifies implicit choices when Default is missing
- Arpad showed BIRD 127.4
- This restricts Default values to the allowable set
- Arpad showed BIRD 140.2
- This specifies that Default overrides Typ for certain parameter types
- Slide 3:
- Arpad: This diagram shows an Out parameter passed to the EDA tool engine
- Ambrish: It can be used for error checking
- Arpad: Then it should be an Info
- David: The model might provide a refined value
- Walter: Then it should be an InOut
- Walter: A 4 x 5 table is returned as 20 numbers
- The AMI info is needed to know the row column arrangement
- This is the only time that info is needed
- Arpad: The spec should say that
- Slide 4:
- Arpad: How is Default used here?
- Walter: Default is effectively Value here
- Slide 5:
- Arpad: If no Default, the first item of a List is taken
- Slide 6:
- Arpad: Default is different here for an In parameter
- Slide 7:
- Arpad: Does the user make a List selection for an Out?
- Ambrish: The DLL chooses
- Arpad: Is the List used to check the model returns?
- Ambrish: Yes
- Walter: Disagree
- Slide 8:
- Arpad: The DLL does not know Corner, how will it choose?
- Walter: Create a MyCorner Model Specific to tell the DLL
- Ambrish: We need to use these to check valid values
- Walter: The benefit of that is small
- Slide 9:
- Arpad: Please email suggestion for further refinements
- Ambrish: We should add a new Format to allow returning anything
- Arpad: I will not address this now
- Bob: BIRD 140.2 might help but we have not voted on it yet
- Walter: Format should be required for Out only for Table
- The tool should ignore Format otherwise
- Bob: Disagree
- Arpad: Model makers will not know to specify all possible outputs
Meeting ended.
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Next meeting: 03 Jan 2011 12:00pm PT
Next agenda:
1) Task list item discussions
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IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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