[huskerlug] Re: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

  • From: "Martin Wolff" <mwolff@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: huskerlug@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:03:45 -0500

Yeah,  I was aware of the whole free as in cost vs the Free as in
FREEDOM( the Stallman type thing). I'm aware of the restrictions and
such with using code like the w32codecs and etc.

 I should have phrased my question better, I guess what I was really
looking for was if people had more information about the other distros
on the top ten list and WHY they weren't free(if all of the ones on
the list are in fact not free)?  What parts were included in them, etc
that made them not free?  What drivers, etc came stock that were the
offending pieces of code?  Sorry, my original question was badly
phrased so it probably read like I knew nothing about the difference
between simply free in $$ and free as in able to change, etc.

> It has the "Broadcom" problem but leaves no way to connect to the
>Internet to solve it IF your chip won't connect.   The broadcom problem


Yeah I've known a few people that have run into that and have been
really annoyed.

--

Martin




On 4/26/07, GreyGeek <jkreps@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Martin Wolff wrote:
> > ...
> > I knew  Ubuntu was going to be number one before clicking the link
> > because, well, I've used it and it really is __that__ good.
> >
> In contrast, I decided to try Kubuntu 7.04.    What a disappointment.
>
>  It has the "Broadcom" problem but leaves no way to connect to the
> Internet to solve it IF your chip won't connect.   The broadcom problem
> occurs when the supplied bcm43xx driver won't fire your broadcom
> wireless chip as wlan0 but binds it as eth1 instead, which usually fails
> to connect when ifup fires..   To make matters worse, only the
> ndiswrapper.ko module is supplied.   So, you can do stuff like "sudo
> modprobe ndiswrapper" but you cannot do "sudo nidswrapper -l" or "sudo
> ndiswsrapper -m" or "sudo ndiswrapper -e somedriver.sys" because
> ndiswrapper itself is not installed.  In other words, you cannot wrap
> other windows drivers.   You have to use another PC to connect to the
> Internet in order to download the ndiswrapper package, put it on a
> memory stick, boot into your Kubunut  and install it.  I couldn't find a
> way to connect to the Internet from Kubuntu.   The same problem was
> present in SimplyMEPIS32 6.5betas, but the release version included the
> full ndiswrapper package.
>
> THe menu structure is very simple and the installed apps are standard
> for a LiveCD staying within the 698MB limit.
>
> The time to a working desktop from a LiveCD boot was exceptionally long,
> easily twice or even three times as long as the MEPIS LiveCD.
> Administration is done entirely using KDE apps.  Kubuntu seems to be a
> pure KDE distro.with no special admin apps like MEPIS or PCLinuxOS.   In
> that sense it appears to be entirely free of non-GPL apps.
> ...
> > Also, I've never been very good with the whole free/non-free
> > technicalities, but I'm thinking that every distro on this list is
> > actually not completely free.  Stallman's site lists only Utotu,
> > gNewSense, and blag as completely free. Can anyone else speak
> > intelligently about this because I'll admit, I'm not sure?
> The bcm43xx wireless driver was green-room engineered and is totally
> GPL, so it doesn't taint any distro.   Other drivers can be installed
> using Windows drivers using ndiswrapper.   Most chip makers supply
> publically downloadable windows drivers that can be wrapped by
> ndiswrapper, so there is no offense there.
>
> The main problem is with the playing of encrypted DVD movies,  certain
> Microsoft and Apple media file types, Acrobat, and flash video.     The
> MEPIS distro includes the following licensed apps:
>
> Some users of MEPIS products may be bound by some or all of the
> following licenses:
>
>     * Adobe Acrobat Reader Software License
>       <http://www.mepis.org/node/10361>
>     * Agere LT Modem Driver License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10356>
>     * ATI FGLRX Driver License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10354>
>     * AVM Fritz Firmware License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10355>
>     * Intel IPW Firmware License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10359>
>     * Intel IPW3945 Daemon License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10358>
>     * Macromedia End User Licenses <http://www.mepis.org/node/10357>
>     * MEPIS Collective Work License <http://www.mepis.org/licenses/mcwl>
>     * NVIDIA Driver License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10353>
>     * Skype End User License <http://www.mepis.org/node/10360>
>     * Sun Java 5.0 Licenses <http://www.mepis.org/node/10350>
>
> I understand that MEPIS pays for a license to include some of these apps
> in its distro so that users don't have to go to their websites and
> download non-debian packages and go through the hassle of installing
> them.  Others are included in the MEPIS repositories.
>
> While I know of no distro that comes with w32 preloaded or with an
> activated repository which contains it, the option remains to activate
> the repository and download w32 along with css, nav4, etc..so that the
> distro can play DVD movies, wma, mp3 and other file formats.
>
> > If it is true that every distro on the top ten list is not completely free,
> > well, I guess I would just find that interesting.  It is also
> > interesting to note that Ubuntu plans on releasing a completely free
> > version of itself sometime.(it was announced on....umm... the 12th of
> > this month I think..anyways)
> >
> > Martin
> >
> I am not concerned about this.   When I purchased a DVD movie I demand
> my right to play it on any player I have.  The DVD didn't come shrink
> wrapped with a EULA which limits how I can play it.  If future DVDs do
> come with such a EULA I will not buy them.
>
>
> > On 4/26/07, GreyGeek <jkreps@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Windows?
> >> Yes
> >> Yes
> >> ;-)
> >> JLK
> >>
> >> Jim Worrest wrote:
> >>
> >>>       I thought popularity did have to do with quality?  Say ever try 
> >>> CENTOS?
> >>> does it work well?  ---Jim
> >>>
> >>> Martin Wolff wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I guessed all of these without opening the link.  It would have been
> >>>> cooler if they had done an actual survey of the distributions on
> >>>> something like quality or how free it is rather than the distro's
> >>>> popularity on distrowatch.com.  Oh well, maybe I'll email them and
> >>>> suggest that.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4/25/07, Jim Worrest <jworrest@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>         This something new distrowatch added. A review of the top ten 
> >>>>> distros. Look it
> >>>>> over.  ---Jim
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major>
> >>>>>
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