[HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs

Hi Austin,


Yes I know that camera.
I had a pre production S2 camera in my hands 4 days ago.
Sorry this is no competition and I certainly would not want
to compete with you on matters concerning digital imaging.

With that sensor and lenses with the famous Leica quality, 
manual focus feel is the best, compared with any other AF camera,
Leica has a winner in their hands. 
They can and will market that camera at a price that will give other
players in the MF field a serious headache to start with Hasselblad.

The owner and CEO of Leica does not even want to market this
camera as a medium format camera although sensor size and pixel
count exceed many digital backs now produced for MF cameras.

That is why I mentioned MF digital needs to be redefined.
I have the advantage of being located in Europe where informal
information about new developments from European industries
can be heard louder than at your end of the ocean.

Right now and I doubt very much whether that was different
before, digital imaging is a pure money affair.
Knowing that you would not want to have Leica as an enemy now. 
They know a thing or two about lenses and cameras.
Their financial position allows them to bring out new models
as if R&D are available at 90% discount not to mention the cost 
to finance production. 
Besides the S2 they are working also on the R10.
That camera will be released shortly after the S2.

The dramatic price drop for H cameras is not a gift from Hasselblad
to attract new buyers and upset owners of the H system in the proces.
It is a move to keep their share of the market once the S2 hits the 
streets. 


Bien cordialement,

Richard
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Austin Franklin 
  To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:00 AM
  Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


  Hi Richard,

  Have you seen this:

  http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092301_leica_s2.asp#press



  knock...knock...


  Best Regards,

  Austin
    -----Original Message-----
    From: hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Richard Schiff
    Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:45 PM
    To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


    Most are aware that full-frame sensors are available... but only having 
digital backs that cost from $7,000 to $30,000 has effectively shut VH off from 
90% of their former market.  This unfortunately tolls the death knell for VH.  
Leitz at least has a $5,000 digital solution... though not near MF quality.
    Many Fine art shooters I know have decided to stick with MF film then scan 
the images and Light Jet the prints.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: austin.franklin@xxxxxxxxxxx
    To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs
    Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:51:40 -0400



    Then perhaps saying "with *existing* (commercially available) digital 
backs" would be a more accurate claim.

    BTW, the "full frame" sensors *are* available.  I have a few.

    Best Regards,

    Austin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of flexbody
      Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:47 PM
      To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


      Sofar there are only digital backs available with considerably smaller 
sensors
      The often used CFV back from Hasselblad performs excellently with the SWC.
      Backs now availble with a mount suitable for Hsselblad have smaller 
sensors.

      Lets talk about full frame 56x56 mm sensors as soon as they are available.
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Austin Franklin 
        To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
        Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:38 PM
        Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


        Hi Flex,

        I'm not sure I agree with that.  IF the digital back has a 
(significantly) reduced sized sensor, possibly.  But I'd question that a full 
frame sensor would not have significant vignetting on the corners.

        Regards,

        Austin

          -----Original Message-----
          From: hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of flexbody
          Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 4:38 PM
          To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
          Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


          The difference between theory and practice.
          Any SWC will produce excellent results with a digital back.
          Even the first camera in that series,the SWA, will go well 
          with a digital back.


            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Karl Wolz 
            To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
            Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:16 PM
            Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs


            I’m not an engineer, but I would venture a guess that with the 
Biogon being as close as it is to the film plane, you’d run into real problems 
using one for digital capture.  Sensors tend to be real finicky about the angle 
of light (a distinct advantage to film).



            Karl Wolz




--------------------------------------------------------------------

            From: hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:hasselblad-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of flexbody
            Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 1:07 PM
            To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Subject: [HUG ] Re: Biogons and digital backs



            It is not the price of the sensor that is important for the price 
of a digital back.

            Sensors are only a fraction of the total cost of a digital back.

            I guess a full size sensor would not cost more than 600USD of 
ordered in quantities.

            Other problems will make a full size back for MF expensive.

            Power needed to feed the electronics will go up considerably. 

            That makes large capacity batteries necessary. 

            Just one ot the problems that are often overlooked. 

              ----- Original Message ----- 

              From: Richard Schiff 

              To: hasselblad@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

              Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 9:13 PM

              Subject: [HUG ] Biogons and digital backs



              Digital or not... the SWC's 38mm Biogon can probably still beat 
the pants off any wide angle lens ever made. 
               
               I think the there would be a market for a tech start-up to make 
a Hasselblad specific Digital back to work with and 500/swc series body.  I 
know the chips are out there.  5 years ago I held in my hand a CMOS detector 
that measure 5" square.  It was comprised of four  2.5"  CMOS detector plates 
joined together.  It was a high-gane photographic detector  for the Keck 
telescope in Hawaii.  If that plate  was operation 5 years ago then the 
technology is WAY beyond that now.  producing a 2-1/4 X 2-1/4 full frame 
detector that could sell for less than $1,000 should be well within reason 
today.  If Hasselblad or leaf won't do it then someone should

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