[openbeos] Re: Updating OSes bit by bit

This is really sort of a distro-specific thing. You could certainly have 
GentooOBOS which is source based. You could also have RedHatOBOS which is 
binary based. 

Personally, I would want to use a binary based version. Obviously not because I 
can't build it. But because I don't want to. In my mind, the Be Way is to have 
the minimal upkeep necessary. Logical defaults. Things that "just work". 
Settings easy to change, but usually unnecessary. That means that make; make 
install is a bad thing. It means learning commands and understanding the shell, 
directories, the way the source is laid out, etc. That is a bad thing. 
Obviously Roland knows, understands and likes these things. Truthfully, I do 
too. But I don't want to have to think about them when I am not using them. If 
I am not writing OS code, I don't want to have to think about that stuff. I 
want to focus on what I am in front of the machine for. If I am here to play a 
game, I want to do that. Not go and build something. 

We (the admin team) haven't talked about patches. I seriously hope that we can 
do pretty much what Be did. That is to not have them. To thoroughly test 
"stuff" before we release it. To not have emergencies. To not have to panic and 
make patches so our users don't get their systems hacked. But. If we need to 
have them, we will. My guess would be that we would do them pretty much the way 
Be did them - binary.

Remember something else - BeOS is smaller than some patches that Microsoft puts 
out. A few rough numbers -
apps  - 9 mb, 32 files
bin - 10mb, 274 files
drivers (system/add-ons) - 17 mb, 450 files
libraries - 11mb, 36 files
servers - 6mb, 18 files

About 50mb total in around 800 files. Average file size is 62kb. Disregarding, 
for a moment, the possibility of binary patches (which are, of course, 
possible), given the pretty low coupling of files (it is unlikely that file A 
will need changing if file B is changed), it seems like any patches that we 
needed to do would be pretty small and pretty light weight. 

When the situation arises, we could make better judgements. But, for right now, 
it seems to me that small numbers of binary patches issued only in the most 
important circumstances and really good testing are the right way to go.


Michael

On 2004-05-24 at 12:32:07 [-0400], Plüss Roland wrote:
> humpf...
> the same troubles with binary systems like back into the time of dinosaurs... 
> large, bloated patches for a heap of troubles.
> 
> better keep the sources open and just patch em... example GenToo (no no... i 
> use LFS, i'm a pro ;=) ). only download the small source patch and then build 
> the crap again... build on your machine... no virus, no possible attacks. you 
> only have to get the source-patch secured over the line which takes much less 
> time.
> 
> i hope strongly OBOS can be driven as a source-os, not a binary-os... 
> otherwise this would (kinda) sux ^_^
> 
> Roland
> 
> >> OK - so, boiling this whole thread down, the original intent is: "Windows 
> >> requires each user to download huge upgrades and won't allow them to
> >> save them to disk/CD for later. OBOS should have smaller updates and should
> >> allow people to save them for later. Here is an article on Windows updates 
> >> as
> >> an example of what NOT to do (link here)."
> >>
> >> This is a good suggestion. It would be a better fit, though, on the GE 
> >> list.
> >> And, as a teaser, I will just note that we have a forum on the new website 
> >> for
> >> stuff like this. :-)
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> On 2004-05-23 at 18:58:42 [-0400], Mat Hounsell wrote:
> >> > The point of the article was the size of updates, combined with the 
> >> need to
> >> > use a modem, lead to long download times and infections while 
> >> waiting. My
> >> > parents ISP limits connections to 3 hours and you are lucky to get 
> >> that
> >> > before a disconnect.
> >> >
> >> > It is a wise many that learns from the mistakes of others.
> >> >
> >> > I don't want to spend forever downloading updates over and over again.
> >> >
> >> > Besides If I wish to convert others to the true path, wouldn't it 
> >> be better
> >> > to say:
> >> >    "Oh there's no need to get updates, once you've got them you can 
> >> burn them
> >> > to an updated install CD, like the one that's just finished 
> >> installing."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. 
> >> > http://au.movies.yahoo.com
> >

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