[openbeos] Re: Site Audit

On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Karl vom Dorff <karl@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Schrijvers Luc <Begasus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> On za, 2008-10-11 at 13:56 -0400, Karl vom Dorff wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Oliver Ruiz Dorantes
>> > <oliver.ruiz.dorantes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >         Amazing work Karl,
>> >
>> >
>> >         I am sure many of us had this idea in mind. In fact I worked
>> >         in some zoho formularies which people could submit wanted
>> >         applications and other could post something like a url mirror.
>> >         To "save" the application. Maybe this can be added in
>> >         Haikuware somehow Karl?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Not sure I understand what you mean... I want to try to get away from
>> > people submitting their own mirrors and links to files. If everything
>> > is all in one place, even if it goes down, it would be a lot easier to
>> > retrieve than if files are scattered all over the web.
>> >
>> >         Some Comments:
>> >
>> >         - I hope in your SPIDER-WEB manual job you also retrieved all
>> >         possible sources. Even if the app is zeta only or is old, the
>> >         application can be ported and updated somewhere in time.
>> >
>> >
>> > I didn't. I didn't download or add Zeta apps because Zeta is dead.
>>
>> I can't get it why you have to remove the ZETA apps? ZETA dead ... you
>> are right there ... it has no future and is not developped ... but that
>> goes for R5 too, are you removing R5 downloads also then?
>> Your reasons for not adding them don't add up ...
>
>
> It's purely logical. Haiku is meant to be binary compatible with BeOS R5 *
> NOT* Zeta. Therefore Zeta applications are dead and have no future (many
> requiring libzeta).
>

I agree with Karl's reasoning on this. If there are ports that work on Haiku
then they could be included.


>
>
>>
>> Another thing I'm having a bit of a problem with is the fact that you
>> host files on haikuware that are activaly being maintained/ported by
>> others, you are using screenshots that you copy'd from the original
>> place etc.
>
>
> Sure, I don't have time to take 2000+ screenshots. It should look the same
> way on BeOS as it does on Haiku if the application is to be binary
> compatible, that's why I used any screenshots that were already available.
>
>>
>>
>> Don't get me wrong .. the idea behind it all is a good one .. but you
>> should've asked around a bit 'before' you added BeBits contents over.
>> Some of the ports are even older on haikuware then the actual release at
>> the moment on BeBits and the original port (freeciv for one).
>
>
> True, but very few. I started the project 8 months ago. In that time some
> of the applications that I already submitted, may have been updated in the
> meantime (i.e FireFox, Thunderbid). I'll have to review this. Help is
> welcome, thanks for noting that application.
>

If there are files that need to be updated then one could always post in the
forum on Haikuware, send us an email, or contact one of us directly. Karl or
I would gladly update or add these files. And like he said help is
appreciated :)


>
>
>
>>
>> >  Also, I didn't download sources. There are very few sources
>> > available. I thought long and hard about this one. I don't want
>> > Haikuware to become a repository for source code. It would demand too
>> > much I think for the way the website would be managed, and OSDrawer
>> > already does a good job in this respect. I looked at download.com,
>> > VersionTracker, and several other big software websites; none of them
>> > host sources.
>> >
>> > Sources are easy enough to find though. If they did exist, that meant
>> > the software existed either on BeBits or the developer's homepage. I
>> > still have the links posted on Haikuware to every author's website
>> > that submitted their website with the software to BeBits.
>> >
>> >         - The list and this anouncement must be public. The list in
>> >          plan txt(as requested) might help to search in our personal
>> >         entire archive. I might be able to do something automatic with
>> >         that saving in cvs might to most of the work. In my company
>> >         they are excel genious. And then a easy script bash script if
>> >         the a given archive path, constains somethe that is present in
>> >         that TXt file. As apps are getting recovered they could be
>> >         marked as it is and, i guess seeing this motivates people to
>> >         submit their files.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I tried to make the list public here... Meanwhile made an easy list
>> > here:
>> >
>> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~rrvvww/haikuwareABC.txt<http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Errvvww/haikuwareABC.txt>
>> >
>> > But the easiest way would be for me to invite you to the GoogleDoc,
>> > that way, as a collaborator we all have access to the same file, and
>> > can edit the file, i.e delete missing files off of the spreadsheet
>> > once they're found.
>> >
>> >         - How do we make you arrive the files? I just have a webdav
>> >         account in gmx which i could share but others? anyone with a
>> >         ftp to be able to drop the files?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyone with a Haikuware account can upload missing files via the
>> > online web interface...
>> >
>> >  http://www.haikuware.com/upload
>> >
>> > Alternatively, I've opened an anonymous FTP folder. Just ftp to
>> > haikuware.com and drop anything you may have in the incoming folder
>> > (500 mb quota).
>> >
>> >         Proposal: declare something like a "beshare sharing week"
>> >         where all comunity shares its archive. Therefore Karl and
>> >         other individuals could complete the "Target app database"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Excellent idea!
>> >
>> >         -  An App its not safe with only the binary, at the time Haiku
>> >         switches to gcc4 that app would be old, and lost as could not
>> >         be used anymore. So now might be a good chance to beg for
>> >         opensourcing, submit binary and src, to ensure the app is
>> >         alive forever.
>> >
>> >         Vamos!!
>> >
>> >         2008/10/11 Schrijvers Luc <Begasus@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >
>> >
>> >                 Is BeBits going down?!
>> >
>> >                 On vr, 2008-10-10 at 14:59 -0400, Karl vom Dorff
>> >                 wrote:
>> >                 > Dear Community,
>> >                 >
>> >                 > It's probably no surprise to many of you (as you see
>> >                 the number of
>> >                 > files on Haikuware increase) that I've been spending
>> >                 the last while
>> >                 > auditing BeBits.
>> >                 >
>> >                 > I think it's important to have a software base ready
>> >                 for when Haiku's
>> >                 > ready, and if users have to deal with the vast
>> >                 amount of missing
>> >                 > software at BeBits where ~35% (conservative
>> >                 estimate) of the files are
>> >                 > missing, they will surely get frustrated! Some may
>> >                 argue, why bother?
>> >                 > The software is old! To them I would say - old
>> >                 software doesn't
>> >                 > necessarily equate to bad software... Also, imagine
>> >                 if BeBits were
>> >                 > gone tomorrow. That would be a great loss.
>> >                 >
>> >                 > To make a long story short, here's what I've been
>> >                 doing:
>> >                 >
>> >                 >       * downloading all available files. When there
>> >                 was missing
>> >                 >         software, I would check against the file
>> >                 name at: a) BeShare
>> >                 >         b) Archive.org c) Google d) Check the
>> >                 Talkback comments for
>> >                 >         links. In short, if the missing files were
>> >                 available somewhere
>> >                 >         on the net, they have to be hiding pretty
>> >                 good...
>> >                 >       * importing the files, descriptions, dates,
>> >                 icons, etc. Adding
>> >                 >         archived links to author homepages if they
>> >                 disappeared, etc.
>> >                 >       * centralizing all the files on one server
>> >                 (later to be mirrored
>> >                 >         in Europe and Asia) so that the infamous
>> >                 BeBits 'missing
>> >                 >         file/dead link' never happens again.
>> >                 >       * linking files only to one category. BeBits
>> >                 is confusing and
>> >                 >         misleading because files are listed in
>> >                 multiple categories
>> >                 >         (artificially inflating the file counts in
>> >                 each category. e.g
>> >                 >         total file count listed on their frontpage
>> >                 when adding all
>> >                 >         together = 6500, actual files = 3535). So
>> >                 when you're browsing
>> >                 >         software, you don't know whether you've
>> >                 already passed by the
>> >                 >         file you're looking at or not therefore
>> >                 wasting time. Not to
>> >                 >         mention wasting time finding a link that
>> >                 works or visiting
>> >                 >         unwelcomed porn sites hehe.
>> >                 >       * removed Zeta software.
>> >                 >
>> >                 > I'm 90% complete the task, and will be spending the
>> >                 next 2-3 weeks
>> >                 > finishing. BeBits lists 3535 'files' on their
>> >                 website, of which I
>> >                 > estimate 35% are gone (= 2298 actual files). Today I
>> >                 uploaded the
>> >                 > 2222nd file to Haikuware, meaning very shortly,
>> >                 Haikuware may be the
>> >                 > largest (but not most popular) online provider of
>> >                 BeOS (and Haiku if
>> >                 > Haiku R1 achieves binary compatibilty) software (and
>> >                 maybe retro
>> >                 > software in general)... But that's not really the
>> >                 point.
>> >                 >
>> >                 > The point is, I'd like to salvage as much BeOS
>> >                 software as possible.
>> >                 > I'd like to ask the community to contribute any
>> >                 missing files (that
>> >                 > I'm sure they have on CDs in their basements) my
>> >                 way, so I can fill
>> >                 > the missing gaps. I've tried to keep a record
>> >                 (sometimes GoogleDocs
>> >                 > crashed on me) of the missing files, and for the
>> >                 most part, should be
>> >                 > pretty complete. You can view the documents here (in
>> >                 XLS, ODF):
>> >                 >
>> >                 >
>> >
>> http://www.haikuware.com/downloads/registered/haikuware.zip
>> >                 >
>> >                 > Although I would hope most people see this endeavour
>> >                 as a good thing,
>> >                 > I can appreciate that some developers may not like
>> >                 their software
>> >                 > hosted at Haikuware. Please contact me, and I'll
>> >                 remove whatever you
>> >                 > wish.
>> >                 >
>> >                 > Lastly, I know the design of Haikuware lacks in
>> >                 function, speed, and
>> >                 > aesthetics (compared to BeBits). Once I'm done with
>> >                 all the files,
>> >                 > I'll be re-designing the website and hope to have it
>> >                 ready for the
>> >                 > Alpha 1 release. I'm looking at an RoR design
>> >                 perhaps. Something that
>> >                 > will be able to stand a huge database and lots of
>> >                 traffic. I'm also
>> >                 > looking to create a unique website that will combine
>> >                 the best parts of
>> >                 > VersionTracker, BeBits, Download.com, etc.
>> >                 Therefore, if anyone can
>> >                 > recommend a good developer/team or has any
>> >                 suggestions I'd be
>> >                 > greatful. Also, if anyone here thinks they may be up
>> >                 to this task (I'd
>> >                 > like to keep the work in the community if possible),
>> >                 contact me
>> >                 > privately with your resume. It has to be someone
>> >                 with serious
>> >                 > credentials (not a Joomla hacker like me) with 6-8
>> >                 weeks of full-time
>> >                 > labour. A full proposal is in the works, and will
>> >                 probably be 20-30
>> >                 > pages. Ask for my budget - serious enquiries only
>> >                 please.
>> >                 >
>> >                 >
>> >                 >
>> >                 >
>> >                 > --
>> >                 > Karl vom Dorff
>> >                 > B.Sc (Hons) Biology, (German minor)
>> >                 >
>> >                 > http://www.karlvd.com
>> >                 > http://www.clubloreley.org
>> >                 > http://www.haikuware.com
>> >                 >
>> >                 >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >         --
>> >         Oliver,
>> >
>> >         http://urnenfeld.blogspot.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Karl vom Dorff
>> > B.Sc (Hons) Biology, (German minor)
>> >
>> > http://www.karlvd.com
>> > http://www.clubloreley.org
>> > http://www.haikuware.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Karl vom Dorff
> B.Sc (Hons) Biology, (German minor)
>
> http://www.karlvd.com
> http://www.clubloreley.org
> http://www.haikuware.com
>
>


-- 
Dennis d'Entremont
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