Hi, 2009/12/14 Jorge G. Mare <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > Alexandre Deckner wrote: >> >> Jorge G. Mare wrote: >> >> In principle you're right, note though how i tried to be brief, polite and >> stay on to the point. Now in reality, you simply seem against finding >> solutions as you show again in your following paragraphs and other mail, it >> seems more to me that this is the disagreeing with you that is off topic. > > Trying to save the world is a noble cause, but attempting to use this or any > other Haiku mailing list as a means to discuss ecology is simply off topic. Even with your newly proposed mailing list rule I think this is on-topic. Going green is no longer a fashion trend, it is a viable choice right now. I think we are obliged to look at alternatives. Even if you are a climate change denier, there are plenty of reasons to consider going green. >> That "irony" you mention now is the "ridicule" i mentioned in my first >> message. Worse problems? Already answered. Ah if only you were backing that >> with some science. What is a more efficient way of communicating worldwide >> than sending a few electrons through metal? This is order of magnitudes more >> efficient than anything else, and some parts already run on renewable >> electricity (as our new dedicated server does apparently). > > The very same computers that are used to process all those electrons as well > as the many other electronic appliances that people use on a daily basis at > homes, offices and just about anywhere else you go -- many of which perform > superfluous/non-essential functions in our lives -- not only consume a lot > of energy that are putting a strain on natural resources, but they also > generate a lot of waste that are extremely damaging to the environment. > > So, how about we all give up using ours computer and all other electronic > conveniences to save the earth? Since you are so concerned about the > environment, are you willing to do that? Good god, add that to the list of your wonderful false dilemmas. There is more than giving up technology/meat/computers entirely: you can also use it less. I support your point that for some reason computers have been cut slack when it comes to going green. I think they can get away with it because the harm mostly takes place in countries that we don't care about. I think we all go happy about exploiting poor factory workers in Asia, as well as that we don't care that the natural resources are exploited in a destructive way in Africa. [Those continents are being kept 'exploitable' by the same false dilemma you employ, by simply claiming that it is the way it is and the only alternative is to stop...]. The magical words are 'less' and more 'sustainable'. You are right, computing will never be environment-neutral. I guess that's one of the properties of life: you have an impact on the environment. What we can do is make wiser decisions, for example, when we only intend to do office stuff and web browsing, don't buy the most advanced computer. Instead of three computers running simultaneously, have only one. Instead of buying a new one every two years, buy one every three years. And to choose the greener option wherever possible. I guess that is just a difficult concept to grasp from someone living in the United States. We have to start somewhere, and by starting with discussing the things that have a direct impact, we can contribute to a better world. We do have to be careful that we don't let the little things mask the bigger picture as such that we don't realize that the real environmental damage is done by our technology, and that we at one day have to challenge that too... N>