[openbeos] Re: Openness
- From: Michael Phipps <mphipps1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: openbeos@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 15:57:26 -0400
Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki) wrote:
OK, so 7 million or so lines of code doesn't earn trust and respect?
All of them given away for free? A nearly complete, working version of
something that all of the experts told us we couldn't possibly do? If
that doesn't do it, I doubt meeting minutes will.
If people are raising the issue on the mailing list (and remember that I
did not start this thread), it obviously means that it is not just about
the code, but rather the image that the project as a whole reflects. I
realize that I am talking about things as abstract as perception, but
this is real whether you want to realize it or not.
Sure, I realize that.
Look - we have gone around in circles and dug up a lot of stuff that
doesn't really help.
Let's talk about real things that can be done instead of vague points that
we may or may not be agreeable.
The idea of continuing the meeting minutes was brought up. Personally, I
think that it is pointless, but we are voting on it now. I think that I
already dealt with the reason that the changes to the donation page weren't
posted in big letters. Is there anything else, specific, that you want to
change?
This is total nonsense. The only thing that it takes to get an
invitation is the willingness to *DO* hard work. If that isn't open
enough, nothing is.
Please, point me to anywhere, say, on the website that clearly states
that anyone can be invited to become an admin by showing just
willingness to do hard work. What about admin status: is it for life,
even if the person makes no more contributions or has distanced from the
project? In summary, what are the rules of engagement, and why are they
not in a place where everybody can see?
Because it never came up? Because it is pretty similar to what every other
big OSS project does? Do you really think that there is some sort of
strange conspiracy going on? :-) This isn't the X-Files. ;D Nobody has ever
asked how to get on the admin team. If they had, I would have answered it. :-)
No, it's not the lack of roadmap that I am referring to, although having
one would help too. I was trying to give an example of an OSS project
where those deeply involved in the project do have the willingness to
discuss this kind of topics in public, as opposed to doing so in a
closed list as it happens in Haiku. This makes the whole organization
look much more transparent.
We haven't even had that conversation in private! :-)
Seriously... The reason that we have an admin list is that it keeps
signal:noise up AND it emphasizes the voices of those doing the work. There
are around 1000 people on this list. Everyone has an opinion. The voices of
the 30 people who do all of the work deserve to be heard.
Fair enough, but the commonality ends there. Besides, Haiku does have
precedents of disclosing information stuff that is being worked on (as
in, not finished). For example, development work that is in progress
like the FreeBSD compatibility layer or the JMicron-related SATA support
have been reported; this usually has a positive effect on the existing
community and it creates an opportunity for more exposure on news channels.
Yes, disclosing some things like this that are completely positive is a
good thing. Would it be equally positive to post "Haiku developers are
thinking about maybe doing WalterCon in Antarctica on Feb 29?" No. It isn't
helpful until it is announced. Nor is every detail of debates on some of
these things useful or beneficial.
An analogous open approach could be taken in other areas (like
WalterCon, for example) that could open opportunities for people to help
out beyond contributing code. I invite you to take a look at
http://groups.drupal.org for a good example of how you could movilize
and empower the community to become more engaged in many more ways for
the benefit of Haiku.
Interesting. We have something analogous for code - Trac.
It *would* make a difference in the psychic of the community. Even if
the amount of substantive information were to be limited, it would still
make the community feel more part of the goals of the project. These
people are your constituents, and the more you make them part of the
project, the more likely they are to become motivated to contribute.
I think that the people reading them would be as bored and uninterested as
can be. I invite you to go read the meeting minutes from any town board
meeting. When you wake up, tell me how they were. :-)
Any single act (like publishing the admin meeting logs) does not
constitute the panacea for becoming open. A combination of things need
to happen, and giving some visibility of what the admins discuss is one
of them, but not the only one. Creating an environment where people can
contribute is important, both in terms of rules of engagement as well as
tools that could empower the potential contributors.
So, is that the real issue here? Somehow we are considered closed and
people therefore don't want to contribute?
Well, the multiple times that we discussed the possibility of going with
CafePress or the like, your only argument against it was high cost. Back
then, I even did a little IRS research, and all there is to "quid pro
quo contributions" (payments a donor makes to a charity partly as a
contribution and partly for goods or services) are rules about
disclosure and deductions, which are pretty easy to follow.
When I read the rules, it was a little vague. This is from the IRS website:
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Distribution of low-cost articles
When soliciting donations through the mail, 501(c)(3)s sometimes include
incidental items like greeting cards to encourage the recipient to make a
donation. Either way, the recipient is allowed to keep the item.
Contributions received in this manner will not be included in the UBI tax
calculation.
To qualify as “low-cost,” the item must not cost the organization more than
$8.60. However, this value is subject to annual change.
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There is a lot more to this. Look up Unrelated Business Income at
stayexempt.org if you are really interested.
All the stuff about HaikuBounties chopped...
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