[openbeos] Re: Couple of non-sequiters

OK, guys, this has gone *way* beyond "non-sequitur" to completely off-topic. Please take it off-list.

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Steve Vallee wrote:
Try slaving away at
a sweat shop. The poor work for as long as 12 hours w/ few breaks making
your clothes and picking your food. Who makes the food, rich people? They
don't pick nor prepare food.


This is not related to sociology or economic, this is a human nature issue. And a BIG one. A human can be extremelly evil, regardless of the economic system he's living in.


Before there were rich, people were eating.
In fact the whole idea of property creates a system where one has to work,
but this wasn't always true.


False. False. Humans ALWAYS had to work. For food. to survive. To reproduce. To protect himself against nature. In fact, previously a human life was a 100% hard work time. I call that far worst than today...

Example : My cousin is not a physical person. He can't physically work for too long. But he's a mechanic engineer genius. He knows how to build great tractors and farmer tools. If he was born many centuries ago, he'd died because only the one who can create direct food could survive. Today, he's building great farmers tools, that make farmers more productive for less efforts and more comfortable.

So the two persons are important, but they do WHAT THEY ARE GOOD TO. Which wasn't the case in the "old days" or whenever you refer to. I live in a world that I can make a living by doing what I'm good to : coding, and NOT trying to survive in nature and wondering when's my next meal. Yep, other people don't have this chance, but I prefere this divided world, than a full "poor" world.


your Mercedes, there's always a jerk to point at him "look at the
f---'in rich who exploit his employees and does nothing all day long".
Yeah right.


I never disrespect people like that. You have the wrong party.


Sorry big mistake here, I didn't intended to point at you with this sentence. 


I just think that we have differing views of what 'work' means. Also, of
what an hour is. The poor work the hardest.


Nope, my brother-in-law is what I can considere "rich" because he own his own wealthy company, and I swear I never saw someone working that hard. Ever. I could do like him and become rich, but I don't want to : too much work and sacrifice. I prefere a healthy balance between money / sanity :-)


He has shown that the market doesn't create wealth. You don't believe me?


Yes and no. Yes because it's true market don't create direct goods. But no because capitalism need one thing to go right : money movement. It's like the oil in a car engine. No cash movement, big trouble. The market by moving the money is, yes, adding indirect wealth to the whole system. (P.S. That's my own theory, I'm not an expert in this area)


How many times have you seen
a stock broker mining ore and crafting a mercedes?


What's the need ? They make money movement and take a percent in the change for the *RISK*. That's it, their work is the *RISK*. And anyway, how many times have you seen an hotel clerk mining ore and crafting a mercedes ?


Making them work for things that they had for free at one time.


When ? What do you mean about "free at one time" ? My knowledge of human society history is going up to Egyptians. And since that time, AFAIK, humans always had to work for things, for lands, etc.


The free sw people do the opposite. They give us our land back. This is
why capitalists hate it. Ha ha.


I beleive strongly in capitalism. And I beleive strongly in free software. Captialists don't hate it, only *specific* opponents hate it (i.e. Microsoft).


If I buy a stock and it doubles, what did I do?


You took a BIG risk, and you earned from it. That's what we call the "Damocles Sword", suspended over a head. I have a friend who started working as kind of a broker few years ago. He got great money pretty fast. Big car, big condo. At some point I get a bit jealous, but realized soon that my situation was far better : I was stable at the time, and I'm still stable today. Because since the last two years, he just run on loans because he lost everything with the market crash. That's easy to think the brokers are rich easy ass-hole, what we don't (want to) see is that it's a VERY difficult life, pretty cool on surface, stressing as hell inside.


People are getting screwed by this system all the time.


Nope, because I'm native from Quebec, easily the most socialist and left-oriented "state" in north america. And I can tell you something that's there's nothing to screw more than socialism. I lived in frustration because of the system, and finally just gave up, and moved in U.S. Since then I have a really great and fulfilled life, totally in peace. If it's what some people call the savage and inhuman american jungle ... then I'll take the "pain" with a big and sincere smile.





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