[openbeos] Re: BugZilla => Trac

"Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki)" <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I will tell you what the problem with the new website is: the website 
> is 
> a HUGE part of marketing, and I do not like it. As it is now, it 
> looks 
> awful, it is disorganized, and it has no focus whatsoever. It is 
> nothing 
> more than a blog to wich Trac has been added.

I don't think the website should be published now either. However, I 
have *no* problem with the switch to Trac, and how it went. Could it 
have been better? Sure. Is it a problem? Not really.

> I also question that two people (that happen to be engineers) seem to 
> have empowered themselves to make the decision to migrate the 
> website, 
> when that has such a big impact in marketing communications, an area 
> that is not their competence.

Oh, I'm afraid you'll have to do something like that more often in the 
future (that's not a threat, just a prediction) :-)

We never really did that, and I think it's a bit too early for 
attacking us like this: AFAICT Waldemar only tried to push things, 
while I still don't think the website itself is ready; even though it's 
much better than the old site right now, no matter what's good or bad 
for marketing, IMO.

[...]
> something that has an impact on marketing communications. This one 
> has, 
> and big time (even when you may think it does not).

Sure it has, IMO (and IMO only) it's just not *that* important at this 
point. It will become much more important in the future.

> I also question the lack of teamwork. The process in which the new 
> website has been handled is typical of the lack of collaborative 
> effort 
> and coordination. It was full of unilateral decisions and actions 
> (which 
> showed slopiness), from the selection of the backend, to things like 
> suddenly dropping some of the existing forums, then moving from 
> Bugzilla 
> to Trac after the fact (even when there were still problems), and now 
> pretending that one person or two have the decision power to say when 
> the website is ready for transition.

All of these items were discussed in team meetings or over the (admin) 
mailing list - the only thing you can criticize is the timing, because 
we haven't set any deadlines or specific dates as a team.
We've tested Trac in another host for quite some time, and no one using 
it had any problems with it. Just because you entered the picture late 
(and therefore couldn't take part in these discussions) doesn't mean 
there is a lack of a collaborative effort.

> It looks to me like haiku-os.org has been turned into waldemar.org, 
> and 
> I don't like that, nor do I think it is good for Haiku if we want to 
> work as a team.

We all agreed on needing a new site, and Waldemar stepped in to do the 
work - where is the exact problem with that? Now he wants to switch to 
the new site (which I can understand, sure), but of course, he won't 
decide this alone, he's just pushing.

> Axel: that we are still in development is no justification for 
> showing 
> sloppiness. The website is a reflection of what we are doing, and we 
> should strive to both look the best possible, and to use it smartly 
> as a 
> tool to reach our target audience; the new website does not 
> accomplish 
> either of this goals.

IMO the old web site actually hurts us more in our daily operation: 
while it looks better, it's severly outdated, it doesn't show that 
we're making progress, that we're a living project; it doesn't create 
any momentum at all. Only frequently questions like "I'm using the 
buildtools from your site but cannot compile Haiku".
If you're following Haiku, there is almost never a reason to look at 
our site; it there is a news item, you can shortly see it on the news 
sites anyway - and apart from that, nothing happens.
The Wiki is a much better resource for (correct) information than our 
website.

And making mistakes like Waldemar with his first try to convert the bug 
database is not just sloppy, it's human. I like seeing this much better 
than hiding it and pretending we're perfect.
Sure, he should have publicly set a deadline for the switch, and 
discussed it before with us. But considering he didn't, the switch went 
very smooth for that ;-)

> Anyway, what's the rush to migrate today no matter what? Why can't we 
> wait a few more weeks until we get it right? We have waited 5 years 
> for 
> Haiku, and we cannot wait a little longer to get a website right?

We can, yes, the question is just (apart from the looks): why?
What do you think the old site does better than the new one? I can only 
name one thing: it looks more professional. The navigation is bad, the 
contents are even worse.

BTW we're already waiting more than a year for this new website. What 
you see at http://plonetest.haiku-os.org/ is a live beta of the new 
site - if you have complaints with it, feel free to utter them before 
someone gets the idea "oh, it's ready now, let's do the transition" :-)

Bye,
   Axel.

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