[haiku-web] Re: [haiku-admin] Re: Website

Waldemar Kornewald <wkornew@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Axel Dörfler wrote:
> > Besides that I'm very happy with Bezilla as is (you need to come up
> > with something better and working to make me wanna switch - and you
> > would also need to be able to import our existing bug database, of
> > course), I also have the following comments:
> 1. You can disable SVN for Trac. Then it becomes a simple ticket
> tracker
> (I already installed it without SVN. It works!).

Ah, okay, that makes sense.

[...]
> 5. Bugzilla has an interface that is aimed towards developers, not
> end-users reporting bugs. as an end-user I would simply not report a
> bug
> at all when I see this interface (I would (and people often enough
> do!)
> just say: "this is too much for me. find the bug yourself!"). That
> may
> be not very important ATM, but we *will* have non-developers
> reporting bugs.

As I said, I think this can actually be an advantage, but we'd have to
live with it for a longer time until we can make any statements.

[...]

While that sounds all nice, it's not what we desperately need; it would
just be nice to have.

> >> Okay, hopefully this is a better solution that makes everyone
> > > happy:
> >> * use RSS to watch for changes per ticket or all ticket changes
> >> * use Timeline to watch tickets
> >> * maybe have a mailing list
> >> * no subscription or Cc
> > Why no subscription? It's a damn nice and practical feature. While
> > RSS
> > could be nice, I would hate it as the only solution.
> We had a debate about this. I actually prefer subscriptions (in form
> of
> a simple "Subscribe" link, not a Cc list that everyone can edit),
> too,
> but it seemed to me that the majority does not want them. The next

And? It's a definite requirement for developers, anyway, I don't see
any reason why we should hide that feature from anyone. What we could
do is a "subscribe" feature that acts differently depending on the
user's preferences. Then those who don't want e-Mail notification don't
get it, for whatever reason.

> problem is whether to auto-subscribe every contributor/author or to
> require manual subscription. It's probably too annoying for normal
> users, so it's better to have the possibility to mail authors
> manually
> for more information.

Over my dead body, as they say. A bug tracker should foremost target
the needs of the developers, anything else *must* come after those.
Creating the need to talk to the reporter without the bug tracker is
undermining the quality of the bug tracker in a big way.

> >> earlier mail is still valid (in this case: users can't assign, but
> >> see who is working on it, users can only create bug reports, but
> > > not
> >> tasks, ...)
> > Why shouldn't they? Unless we have someone very enthusiastic about
> > assigning bugs to developers, this doesn't help anybody. If you (as
> > a
> > user) cannot even tell the component, who says you're qualified
> > enough
> > to write a good bug report?
> I guess you agree that users should not create tasks, so let's talk
> about assigning:
[...]
> is to define default-developers per component. So, when someone
> selects
> "Networking" Philippe is automatically assigned. But on
> "Networking->PPP" it's assigned to me, for Kernel it's you, and so
> on...

Turns out I misread that. Yes, having a default developer per component
is the way to go, definitely.

> And what does that have to do with components? Users *should* select
> the
> component that is affected by the bug. That is all we need from a
> user:
> (For users, Type is always Defect and can't be changed)

Why is that? There can be bugs, feature requests, oddities, ... - or do
you just intend to have different masks for this?

> > The more people are using Haiku, the more bug reports will come in
> > -
> > and most of these bug reports will be unusable, anyway - IMO that's
> > not
> > even mean, just realistic :)
> Here, I agree with you. We can at least try to add a little note:
> * how to reproduce
> * experienced behavior
> * expected behavior
> next to the details field, so users at least know what information we
> need (it's still up to them to read that note and actually write a
> good
> bug report, but maybe it helps).

Also: "Please mention the exact revision you tested" :)

> > As I said, I'm happy with Bezilla, and I see absolutely no reason
> > to
> > waste any time with searching for (or even writing!) an alternative
> > solution.
> I'm extremely unhappy with our bug tracker. Actually, I'm a little
> bit
> ashamed of it. This is not what Haiku stands for. It's disappointing
> that so many developers don't see any problems with Bugzilla.

That's silly. It's a bug tracker, nothing more. It's a tool for god's
sake. Bugzilla gets the job done without any usability complaints for
the developers - why should we not be happy with it? It provides
everything we need.

I agree that it looks a bit repelling to those who haven't used it
before, though, but I don't consider this a big problem, as it's so
damn easy to ignore those extra fields and options.

It's not that I'm against switching to Trac, I just don't see the point
in wasting any time and effort in doing so. I might still be against it
when I have to use it, though, of course :)

Bye,
   Axel.

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