[haiku-development] Re: Haiku page_writer maybe not working (was: Re: Haiku self-hosting.)
- From: "Urias McCullough" <umccullough@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:21:20 -0700
Ok, I'll entertain this discussion a little further - especially since
I was unfair to reply without reading your entire message (sorry,
knee-jerk reaction when I see you complaining about this without
actually doing anything about it).
On 01/04/2008, Luposian <luposian@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Urias McCullough wrote:
>
> > On 01/04/2008, Luposian <luposian@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> The system reboots, and you go back into Haiku. Look for your files.
> >> ANY of them. It can be 1 file or a dozen of them... they're NOT
> >> THERE!
> >> Where'd they go?!? They went bye-bye. Why? Because, although
> >> EVERYTHING said they were put on the disk, nice and safe and
> >> secure...
> >> THEY WERE NEVER REALLY THERE!
> >
> > Are you f'ing kidding me? You're still going on about this myth?
> >
> > Must be due to April 1.
>
> Copy a file in Haiku (while I don't think running it in an emulator
> should matter, run it on REAL hardware, as that is what I am using).
> Small, large, 100Mb, 500Mb. It doesn't matter. Wait until it looks
> like EVERYTHING is done. The drive light is no longer lit or blinking
> at all. Then wait even 30 seconds longer than that (just to make
> ABSOLUTELY sure Haiku is happy). Hit F12, to go into Kernel Debugging
> mode, and then type "reboot". When you reenter Haiku, look for where
> you copied your file. On my system, it's gone. Any number of files
> I've ever copied or unpacked or created... are gone when I do this
> ("spontaneous reboot").
Well, let's break it down a bit further... if there are no reports of
this on Haiku's bug tracker - then it's likely a myth. The only one I
see that seems related is this:
http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1961
It appears, according to Ingo, that the page_write does in fact exist,
and allegedly works. IIRC, this has been in place for some time now,
but you've been ranting about this (and similar issues) for well over
a year AFAIK.
So, please back up your experience and claims with a Trac bug, a
reproducible scenario, and less public mailing list and OSNews
comments ranting. You're likely to get a lot more direct developer
interest that way.
Perhaps you have created one and I just simply can't find it. If it
exists, and the Haiku devs truly believe it is important for an Alpha
release - it will be set as such on the roadmap:
http://dev.haiku-os.org/roadmap
(note the R1/alpha milestone currently has 35 tickets left)
If you feel strongly that a Trac ticket should be an Alpha blocker -
you can always say so in the ticket comments.
> If your files are there, then I apologize. It must be my particular
> hardware. But I can duplicate this thing every single time on my
> system. Every revision I've downloaded or JAM'd does it, on my system.
To be fair to you - I will personally try your scenario tonight on my
Haiku test machine. I might even go so far as to file a Trac ticket on
your behalf if I see the same behavior and you don't get around to it
first.
But keep in mind that a KDL is not a "normal scenario" that a user
should ever encounter. I wouldn't be surprised if the Haiku scheduler
for some reason delays the page_writer from writing the cache back to
disk - and maybe this explains the delay.
(looks like Bruno just posted some additional information so I'll cut
this part short)
> No, this is another thorn. One that I think is just as critical, but
> even MORE so, because the more Haiku appears to be able do (and the
> more robust it appears), the more people will EXPECT it to do! And if
> it says files you've copied or unpacked or created are on the disk and
> your power goes "blip!" and all your files are gone... don't you think
> that's gonna make just a few people unhappy?
Nobody should expect much from an Pre-alpha OS. The reality is -
that's what you're using. Your ranting and broad, uninformed, public
criticism of something that you believe is so fundamentally wrong with
Haiku doesn't do much other than exactly prove why the developers are
hesitant to release an unfinished OS to the masses.
If you take the time to understand the real issue, analyze it further,
and report it using the proper channels, maybe people will take you
more seriously.
> Yeah, yeah... I know... "Haiku is pre-Alpha!" (or it was awhile back...
> has it reached alpha status yet? I keep reading about this "Alpha 1"
> status) but file processes (writes, of one kind or another) on a disk
> are fundamental to an OS's basic operation. Try to use ANY OS without
> any files being copied or unpacked or created. If it couldn't (or
> those processes were unreliable), wouldn't you consider that OS fairly
> worthless?
If you're so fanatical about this - you really should keep up on the
news. Nobody likes an uninformed PITA showing up every few months only
to complain about the state of a project.
There are commit lists, mailing lists, blog posts, haiku website
articles, etc. All of these things have notification mechanisms and
subscription features so you can be kept up-to-date on the goings-on
in the project and community.
Sorry, if this is turning out to be nothing more than a rant of my own...
- Urias
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