[haiku-development] Re: Haiku, Inc. in Contempt of Its Community

  • From: Pete Goodeve <pete.goodeve@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:34:54 -0800

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 09:11:23PM +0000, Jessica Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed Feb 18 2015 at 9:54:30 AM Augustin Cavalier <waddlesplash@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
<Pretty much a repeat of the same arguments...>

Augustin, I'm getting pretty tired of this.  I know you're only 16 or so,
and you want to stake your place in the hierarchy, but you're just coming
over (to my perception anyway) as aggressive and rude.  I've been
using BeOS/Haiku since before you were born, so I don't appreciate
it.

> >
> >> The problem,
> >> I think, is that the breaks are small and diffuse, but overall they add up
> >> to major pain.  They are felt, but are hard to detail.
> >>
> >
> > You've spent a significant amount of time complaining and suggesting
> > alternatives, so can you please take some time to write these down instead
> > of arguing to change it first? It'd be very helpful to both of us, I think.

I thought that was what I just did.  
> >
> >
> >> One headache is for those of us who have been using BeOS/Haiku for
> >> a long time, and have built up an extensive, comfortable, personal
> >> environment.  As I just mentioned yesterday, I've been putting stuff
> >> in ~/config/bin etc for years (and more lately in /boot/common) so
> >> I can't just update my working system to PM.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, you can. Copy ~/config/bin to ~/config/non-packaged/bin, and copy
> > /boot/common to /boot/system/non-packaged/. That's all there is to it

And as I said yesterday also, that DOESN"T  WORK!  I probably should
have said that I've forgotten the details (as it was a few months ago)
rather than that I didn't investigate.  The reason as I remember is that
many things in the config hierarchy have themselves fixed references to
other stuff in the same hierarchy. These break if you move them.
> >
====================
> >
> 
> Augustin, you miss the point here is that PM could have been less
> disruptive. And so far, there is only one 3rd-party package repository out
> there. Everything else, to date, has had to go through commits to the Haiku
> tree (which is again extremely sub-optimal).
> 
> Whilst packaging is pretty damn good (there are still cases where it falls
> over), it is going to take significant time for software to be migrated.
> 
> By introducing new paths instead of leveraging the existing paths with a
> bit more thoughtful design could have saved a lot of hurt.
> 
> When you're telling users to change things that they're downloading from
> some 3rd-party site, when the system is clearly 100% capable of
> accommodating it all, is usually a very good indication that we've made
> some poor design choices.
> 
> And if users are going to be making a jump from Alpha4 to Beta1, then we
> will definitely need to be prepared for a backlash from the community.

Thank you, Jessica.  Someone who understands.

What I haven't seen from anyone of those who don't want to fix
things is why there is any disadvantage in doing so.  The suggested
revisions should be a very minor amount of work, wouldn't break
any of the PM advantages, and would immediately silence all our
worries!

This shouldn't have to be such a polarized argument. People may
not really understand the 'other side's point of view, but surely
when there is a compromise that should solve the situation, why
not just implement it?

        -- Pete --

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