[haiku-development] Re: Haiku Inc. and Haiku (was: AboutSystem window credits)
- From: "Dennis d'Entremont" <dennis.dentremont@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 21:37:21 -0300
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Jorge Mare <kokitomare@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Ralf Schülke <teammaui@xxxxxx> wrote:
> >> For the record, when I got involved with the Haiku Inc. transition
> >> team last year, I personally proposed the option of BeFan. This was
> >> discussed internally and contacts were made with the BeFan folks, but
> >> there were issues that could not be resolved:
> >>
> >> * BeFAN said they had no intention of becoming international
> >
> > Thats not true, we have intention to international, thats is what we
> saying
> > on last BG.
>
> I am not saying it is true now; I am saying it was true when we tried
> to talk to them LAST YEAR.
>
> > The Point is that we make re organize and we dont like that anyone think
> we
> > will haiku inc
> > to amputate, We respekt the haiku project.
> >>
> >> * All communication is in German
> >
> > yes and no, some infos about the e.V is in German and german member speak
> to
> > german member in germany.
> > and at the moment its not the point which language we need to comunicate.
> > And all member can speak and write english, only i , my english is verry
> > bad, but we can comunicate. ;-)
>
> There was no English mailing list or forum that we could use to
> communicate openly. We had to rely on Stippi as a messenger, and while
> he kindly volunteered, it was not efficient.
If communications are not available in English it would essentially exclude
all those who can't speak German from the activities of the organization.
>
>
> >> * It is an closed/obscure organization: with the exception of Charlie
> >> and Ralph, we have no idea who they are and what they do.
> >
> > since 1999 makes BeFan e.V help BeOS, later Zeta and now Haiku.
> > We making BeGeistert and any of us makes community work, other organize,
> > etc.
>
> We know Charlie and you, and also know that you guys organize BG. The
> point is that, beyond that, there was (is?) no public information of
> who BeFAN is and what they do.
I don't know anything about BeFAN either but I would say that any secrecy is
a bad thing right off the bat. (IMO of course).
>
>
> >> * The BeFAN people were very difficult to communicate with, not just
> >> because of the language, but because most of the time it was like a
> >> one way street: it would usually take one or two reminders (and
> >> sometime even up to 10 days to get a response) unless Stippi acted as
> >> messenger, which obviously not viable in the long run.
> >
> > I cant see the problem, we have a ML for the members.
>
> Sure, but you have to be a member, and our intention was not to become
> a member of BeFAN, but to explore possible collaboration. And even if
> I could use the ML, is it in English?
>
> >> If BeFAN has been making plans to change any of the above issues with
> >> the intent of collaborating with or even replacing Haiku Inc. in the
> >> long run, they could have communicated with us; after all, they know
> >> who we are. We never heard from them, not even once.
> >
> > First we re organize, after this put we infos about this.
> > For the long run, we must see and speak with us (e.V <-> inc ).
> >
> > My Motivation is making HAIKU-OS ready for the futures:
> > - finaces developer to work on haiku in the opensource world
> > - give support
> > - make democratic and tranzparents the strukture
>
> These goals are not different from those those of Haiku Inc.. So let
> me ask you a question: why not work directly with Haiku Inc. instead
> and make the existing non-profit work for you? This is what our
> project is all about.
It's my opinion that since Haiku. Inc already exists it's better to rectify
the problem rather than get another organization involved.
>
>
> But no, people like to do their own little thing, and expect "the
> project" (whatever or whoever that means to them) take care of things
> for them. Obviously nobody can force anyone, but it is VERY
> frustrating to see people duplicate effort when they see very few of
> us are struggling to maintain and/or improve Haiku's infrastructure
> and/or organization.
>
> Here is a typical example of how our Haiku fans behave: I have
> received more than ten emails over the last few months telling me how
> outdated the Haiku screenshots are; some of this very same people post
> Haiku screenshots on their Flcker accounts or websites; however, noone
> seems to be willing to take a little time to put together a nice
> selection of updated screenshots and send them over so that we can
> post them on the website. Again, they expect "the project" (whatever
> or whoever that means to them) to do it, and some even feel entitled
> to demand stuff.
IMO it's things like this that make the folks who contribute feel
unappreciated. If you are going to criticize or complain you should be
willing to step up and help out if you can.
>
> People need to realize that *everything* in the project -- not just
> the code, but also the website, Haiku Inc., the organization, it's
> democratization, etc. -- is in the same basket: progress is only made
> to the extent that people contribute, participate, and collaborate.
> For example, if you want Haiku Inc. to become more democratic -- which
> we all want, btw -- write and propose the statutes to that effect. If
> you could do it for BeFAN, you could certainly do it for Haiku as
> well, right?
>
> I apologize again for the negative tone, but I am really tired of
> people just being preocuppied with doing their little thing instead of
> trying to contribute to the project directly. It sucks the life out of
> you and makes you think what the heck you are doing all this for.
IMO there is no need for you to apologize as I believe you are making some
very good points.
>
>
> Jorge
>
>
FWIW those are just some of my thoughts.
--
Dennis d'Entremont
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