[haiku-development] Re: AltGr Key, key_map, and the US-International Keyboard

  • From: John Scipione <jscipione@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: haiku-development@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:34:36 -0400

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Adrien Destugues
<pulkomandy@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Le Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:04:43 +0200, John Scipione <jscipione@xxxxxxxxx> a 
> écrit:
>> I initially chose "Control", "Option", and "Command" to make a direct
>> connection with the roles, but people were confused. So I changed
>> "Option" to "Win/Option" and "Command" to "Alt/Command" but you are
>> still confused. So what can I do? Since the labels are going to depend
>> on what is on printed your keyboard I can't win. For instance German
>> keyboards don't have a key labelled "Ctrl" instead they are labeled
>> "Strg", short for Steuerung, the German word for Control.
>
> That's why the current solution of just moving the keys around on the keymap
> seems better to me.

Which is why this functionality isn't going away, different people
prefer different methods

I still prefer the Modifier keys window despite its flaws because it
allows me to choose from a few reasonable options and edits both sides
of the keyboard simultaneously. I am even adding validation to it so
that you'll be warned in case you have selected something that is
technically allowed but not practical like Option Option Option
Option.

> Of course, there could be improvements to this as well, for example I'd use
> swap on left click drag and copy on right click, instead of the current
> solution, since most of the time you want to move keys around, rather than
> copying them.

I have some ideas for improvements to the main window which I'll get
to eventually.

Swap on left drag for sure since swaps are non-destructive. That is
already default for modifier keys, it should be for all keys.

As far as right click drags, I am for the most part against them
although I know that they are used in Tracker already for
drag-and-dropping files. They are awkward to perform. That being said
I am envisioning that you could right click drag a key onto another
key and it would pop up a menu asking what you want to do, swap, copy,
or move kind of like how Tracker does for right click drag and
dropping of files.

You could also drag and drop characters from Character Map. Obviously
in this case left-click drag should will replace the character instead
since swap and move don't make sense here.

Lastly a right click (not drag) on a key should select from a list of
replacement options. When right clicking on modifier keys the list
should contain other modifier keys, for alphabetic keys it should
contain different options. For instance right clicking on the 'a' key
the menu options options would contain other alphabetical characters
and some variations like á, â, à etc. If you were to Shift+right click
on the key instead you'd get Å, Â, À, variations, etc.

> This solution provides a visual representation of the keyboard that is
> rather close to the physical layout, so people can see what they are doing.
>
> Now, I'm not against adding some extra menus to this window, but keeping the
> visual feedback will make it simpler to understand.

Yes, both methods have merit. Drag and drop is wonderful most of the time.

> The menu entries could be just something like "swap option and command
> keys", "swap left option and command", "add altgr key", and so on, not
> referring to the actual key labels but sticking with the key roles.
>
> This way you need no knowledge of what's actually printed on the keyboard.

I am not sure if that helps or not. I'd have to think about it some
more. My first thoughts are that there are too many options for that
to be practical. Also it doesn't help you if you don't know what
Control, Option, and Command mean, which, let's be honest, if you are
only familiar with Windows, you probably don't. The left-right column
association is actually helpful if you understand that left is key
label, right is key role -- because it shows you the association
between the key label and key role in a straightforward tabular
layout. If you are more logic-minded and less spacial-minded it makes
more sense, or at least that is my hope.

Yes, getting the key labels right is tough, but IMHO not intractable.

John Scipione

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