[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...

  • From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:47:36 -0000

Hi Laura;

No, I'll stop here.  What's different is the mind set between the states and
europe, something which has been the case for quite some time.  So, whilst I
don't like discussing politics any way, others and myself will keep on going
round in circles due to the transatlantic difference.

Will
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:15 AM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...


> Will -- I agree to a point, but at some point backward compatibility puts
a
> real drag on a technology and it is best to update even if it is hard.
> Now as for Iraq, it is actually a wealthy country, although the resources
> are mostly divided among a few rich families.
> But with some appropriate business moves and maybe government
redistribution
> of wealth and funding of schools and such, then selling or sending them
old,
> outdated technology is not only inappropriate but would be
counterproductive
> for them and bad for business for us.
> Actually, distributing something new is much cheaper than trying to
> resurrect or reallocate something that is old or worn out, especially
where
> computers are concerned.
> But that's just a thought for your consideration -- if you disagree, feel
> free to flame away and I may listen...
> Take care!
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 8:01 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
> > Ah, but Mr. Shandro, the digital devide is all about accessibility.
> > Accessibility isn't purely the domain of people with disabilities, if
you
> > think it is, then you really are kidding yourself.  Accessibility is
> > purely
> > about whether someone can do something, and that can equally be applied
to
> > the people down the street as it can someone with a disability.  So,
> > whether
> > it works on low cost machines is a matter of accessibility, but just
> > accessibility for people who can only afford low cost machines, not
> > accessibility for people with disabilities.
> >
> > If you think accessibility only concerns people with disabilities, then
I
> > suggest you take a look at an earlier post I made in this thread, in
which
> > I
> > stated accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something or
> > not, then have a look at the world around you.   I see at the bottom of
> > your
> > sig block you mention the war in Iraq.  Do you think those thousands of
> > innocent civillians who were tortured under Saddam can afford the latest
> > technology.  Probably not, and as such the latest technology is not
> > accessible to them.
> >
> > Accessibility is about more attributes than purely whether you are
> > disabled
> > or not.
> >
> > Will
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:37 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >
> >
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> Well, in your scenario below, I guess I'd just have to do without the
new
> >> technology.  That's pretty simple.  If I work harder or do things
> >> differently, I might be able to make some more money to get the newer
> >> technology.  I just don't consider this to be a matter of
accessibility.
> >> Maybe it is one of those "digital divide" issues, but it has nothing to
> >> do
> >> with my mission of improving the lives of my blind brothers and sisters
> >> through the implementation of proper accessibility.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:48 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >>
> >>
> >> > So darrell,
> >> >
> >> > What would you do if you were the father of 6 and had a min9imum wage
> > job
> >> > and your wife was ill and you had this old pc that ran windows.95 or
> >> > dos
> >> > or
> >> > maybe you decided you would put linux on it because all the stuff was
> > free
> >> > and along came this fantastic new technology that you couldn't get?
I
> >> > don't
> >> > think we have a back ward compatibility issue here, we have an
> >> > accessibility
> >> > issue here that is a result of lack of backward compatibility.
> >> >
> >> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:34 PM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Hi Laura,
> >> >
> >> > Yes.  It is all a matter of reasonability rather than accessibility
> >> > when
> >> > we're talking about backward compatibility.  I feel it is important
> >> > that
> >> > we
> >> > make a differentiation here.  Technology advances and there's just no
> > way
> >> > around that.  We're all in big trouble if we're going to associate a
> >> > desire
> >> > for backward compatibility with the need for accessibility for people
> > with
> >> > disabilities.
> >> >
> >> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> > http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:29 PM
> >> > Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me.  Not
> > that
> >> >> it
> >> >> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my
posts
> > to
> >> >> get through...
> >> >>
> >> >> Anyway, here it is:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Dave --
> >> >> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of
> > something
> >> >> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
> >> >> accessible
> >> >> to blind.  (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a
> > sewing
> >> >> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
> >> >> bought,
> >> >> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
> >> >>
> >> >> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a
cadillac -- 
> >> >> you
> >> >> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which
almost
> > no
> >> >> one
> >> >> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all
> >> >> so
> >> >> much
> >> >> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen
> > reaaders,
> >> >> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become
> >> >> essential.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all
> > kinds
> >> >> of
> >> >> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak.  But I
> >> >> encourage
> >> >> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I
have
> > to
> >> >> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
> >> >> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little
money
> > to
> >> >> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
> >> >> involved
> >> >> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the
less
> >> >> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
> >> >> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
> >> >>
> >> >> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating
> > system.
> >> >> Take care!
> >> >> --le
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
> >> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>
> >> >>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at
> > least
> >> >>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things
in
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> instance, such as:
> >> >>> Can I access it with my ancient computer?  Can I aford to get on
the
> >> >>> internet to access it?  Can I access it without a sound card and
get
> >> >>> benefit
> >> >>> out of it?  I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
> >> >>> something
> >> >>> is accessible.  Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging
> > the
> >> >>> issue.  There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce
> > something,
> >> >>> it
> >> >>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
> >> >>> partake
> >> >>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
> >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Will,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
> >> >>> requirements.
> >> >>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view,
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> has
> >> >>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility.  All that
> >> >>> concerns
> >> >>> me
> >> >>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability,
so
> >> >>> long
> >> >>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements?  By
> > bringing
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for
users
> >> >>> with
> >> >>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off
> >> >>> our
> >> >>> pleas
> >> >>> for greater accessibility for our needs.  Let's only ask for what's
> >> >>> absolutely required.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now...  Time for folks to upgrade.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <
> >> >> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
> >> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi;
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
> >> >>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something,
and
> >> >>>> this
> >> >>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by
those
> >> >>>> running
> >> >>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's
> > SDLC.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Will
> >> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
> >> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Hi David,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
> >> >>>>> accessibility.  We need to keep these issues well separated.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >>>>>
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>>>
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
> >> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
(fwd)
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> > can I use windows.95?
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
> >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> > (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Hi David,
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible.  What's wrong with it?
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems
administrator!
> >> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> >>>>
> >> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi
Freedom!
> >> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
> >> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
> >> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> > (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >
> >> >>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
> >> >> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> To: <
> >> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Cc: <
> >> >> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >> ; <
> >> >> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
> >> >> ;
> >> >>>> <
> >> >> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
> >> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> >>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
> >> >>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
> >> >> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> >>>To:
> >> >> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested  in learning more
> >> >>>>> >>>about
> >> >>>>> >>>the
> >> >>>>> >>>power
> >> >>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight
> > Time,
> >> >>>> 10:00
> >> >>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
> >> >>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
> >> >>>>> >>>overview
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet,
the
> >> >>>>> >>>World
> >> >>>>> >>>Wide
> >> >>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking
> >> >>>>> >>>Communities
> >> >>>>> >>>used
> >> >>>>> >>>for
> >> >>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
> >> >>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
> >> >>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether
you
> >> >>>>> >>>want
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>>> >>>use
> >> >>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or
> > all
> >> >>>>> >>>of
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated
by
> > Tom
> >> >>>>> >>>Peters.
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
> >> >>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>
> >> >>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> >> >>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
> >> >>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  In the body of the message,
> > simply
> >> >>>> type
> >> >>>>> >>>"subscribe vicug-l" or "unsubscribe vicug-l" without the
> >> >>>>> >>>quotations.
> >> >>>>> >>>  VICUG-L is archived on the World Wide Web at
> >> >>>>> >>>http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/vicug-l.html
> >> >>>>> >>
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> >
> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ** and in the Subject line type
> > ** unsubscribe
> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > ** immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> > ** or send a message, to
> > ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>


** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
** and in the Subject line type
** unsubscribe
** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
** immediately-following link:-
** [mailto:guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
** or send a message, to
** guispeak-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq

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