[guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...

  • From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:01:16 -0000

Ah, but Mr. Shandro, the digital devide is all about accessibility.
Accessibility isn't purely the domain of people with disabilities, if you
think it is, then you really are kidding yourself.  Accessibility is purely
about whether someone can do something, and that can equally be applied to
the people down the street as it can someone with a disability.  So, whether
it works on low cost machines is a matter of accessibility, but just
accessibility for people who can only afford low cost machines, not
accessibility for people with disabilities.

If you think accessibility only concerns people with disabilities, then I
suggest you take a look at an earlier post I made in this thread, in which I
stated accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something or
not, then have a look at the world around you.   I see at the bottom of your
sig block you mention the war in Iraq.  Do you think those thousands of
innocent civillians who were tortured under Saddam can afford the latest
technology.  Probably not, and as such the latest technology is not
accessible to them.

Accessibility is about more attributes than purely whether you are disabled
or not.

Will
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:37 PM
Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...


> Hi David,
>
> Well, in your scenario below, I guess I'd just have to do without the new
> technology.  That's pretty simple.  If I work harder or do things
> differently, I might be able to make some more money to get the newer
> technology.  I just don't consider this to be a matter of accessibility.
> Maybe it is one of those "digital divide" issues, but it has nothing to do
> with my mission of improving the lives of my blind brothers and sisters
> through the implementation of proper accessibility.
>
>
>
> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> Check out high quality telecommunications services at http://ld.net/?nu7i
> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:48 PM
> Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
>
>
> > So darrell,
> >
> > What would you do if you were the father of 6 and had a min9imum wage
job
> > and your wife was ill and you had this old pc that ran windows.95 or dos
> > or
> > maybe you decided you would put linux on it because all the stuff was
free
> > and along came this fantastic new technology that you couldn't get?  I
> > don't
> > think we have a back ward compatibility issue here, we have an
> > accessibility
> > issue here that is a result of lack of backward compatibility.
> >
> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 4:34 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: here's the missing post...
> >
> >
> > Hi Laura,
> >
> > Yes.  It is all a matter of reasonability rather than accessibility when
> > we're talking about backward compatibility.  I feel it is important that
> > we
> > make a differentiation here.  Technology advances and there's just no
way
> > around that.  We're all in big trouble if we're going to associate a
> > desire
> > for backward compatibility with the need for accessibility for people
with
> > disabilities.
> >
> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
http://ld.net/?nu7i
> > All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "guispeak" <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:29 PM
> > Subject: [guispeak] here's the missing post...
> >
> >
> >> Hi Dave and all -- here is the post that never came back to me.  Not
that
> >> it
> >> is such an important and earth-shattering post, but I do want my posts
to
> >> get through...
> >>
> >> Anyway, here it is:
> >>
> >> Hi Dave --
> >> Well that's true to an extent, if there are several choices of
something
> >> available to the general public, but only the most expensive is
> >> accessible
> >> to blind.  (I ran into this even with something as unrelated as a
sewing
> >> machine -- the only accessible one was top-of-the-line, which my Mom
> >> bought,
> >> but I felt awful having her pay that much.)
> >>
> >> But on the other hand, you are not talking about driving a cadillac -- 
> >> you
> >> are talking about driving a horse-drawn carriage (win95) which almost
no
> >> one
> >> uses any more, and the currently available operating systems are all so
> >> much
> >> more accessible, or have so many more hooks to work with screen
reaaders,
> >> that upgrading is really not only wise, but will soon become essential.
> >>
> >> Now I was a bit annoyed at having to buy a gsm cell phone with all
kinds
> >> of
> >> features I didn't need, in order to have the menus speak.  But I
> >> encourage
> >> software companies to develop such accessible software, even if I have
to
> >> spend a little to be a guinea pig.
> >> Now that I've had a job -- at least long enough to have a little money
to
> >> spend experimenting on such things, I really have enjoyed getting
> >> involved
> >> in the troubleshooting, and if it eventually filters down to the less
> >> expensive phones and systems, all the better.
> >> (But it was really a very overpriced phone!<frown>)
> >>
> >> Take care, and try copying your data and upgrading your operating
system.
> >> Take care!
> >> --le
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:38 PM
> >> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>
> >>> It is a fact that 70 percent of blind people are unemployed or at
least
> >>> under employed so Accessibility includes a multiplicity of things in
> >>> this
> >>> instance, such as:
> >>> Can I access it with my ancient computer?  Can I aford to get on the
> >>> internet to access it?  Can I access it without a sound card and get
> >>> benefit
> >>> out of it?  I'm afraid that w eneed to think hard when we say that
> >>> something
> >>> is accessible.  Saying that asking too much is offputting is doging
the
> >>> issue.  There are degrees of accessibility so if you announce
something,
> >>> it
> >>> is best o say that there is this thang a happenin' and if ya wanna
> >>> partake
> >>> of it, ya gotta be able to drive a cadelak.
> >>>
> >>> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:26 PM
> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Will,
> >>>
> >>> But that's simply a matter of meeting the application's system
> >>> requirements.
> >>> Certainly, from a blindness or even a disabilities point of view, this
> >>> has
> >>> nothing to do with the application's accessibility.  All that concerns
> >>> me
> >>> is, well, can I use the application as a person with a disability, so
> >>> long
> >>> as I otherwise can meet the mainstream system requirements?  By
bringing
> >>> in
> >>> other things that aren't directly relevant to accessibility for users
> >>> with
> >>> disabilities, we run the risk of turning mainstream developers off our
> >>> pleas
> >>> for greater accessibility for our needs.  Let's only ask for what's
> >>> absolutely required.
> >>>
> >>> Besides, Windows 95 is very old now...  Time for folks to upgrade.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>
> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Will Pearson" <
> >> will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:16 PM
> >>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi;
> >>>>
> >>>> It is an accessibility issue in the pure sense of accessibility.
> >>>> Accessibility is a measure of whether someone can do something, and
> >>>> this
> >>>> regards whether the application in question can be accessed by those
> >>>> running
> >>>> operating systems that the application did not target during it's
SDLC.
> >>>>
> >>>> Will
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 7:09 PM
> >>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi David,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Probably not, but that is an OS compatibility issue, not one of
> >>>>> accessibility.  We need to keep these issues well separated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>>>> Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>>>> A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>>>> Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>>>>
> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>>>
> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "david poehlman" <
> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 11:25 AM
> >>>>> Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > can I use windows.95?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> > From: "Darrell Shandrow" <
> >> nu7i@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> > To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 1:19 PM
> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Hi David,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Looks reasonably accessible.  What's wrong with it?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Darrell Shandrow - Shandrow Communications!
> >>>>> > Technology consultant/instructor, network/systems administrator!
> >>>>> > A+, CCNA, Network+!
> >>>>> > Check out high quality telecommunications services at
> >>>>
> >> http://ld.net/?nu7i
> >>>>> >
> >> All the best to coalition forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom!
> >>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> > From: "david poehlman" <
> >> david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> > To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 6:59 AM
> >>>>> > Subject: [guispeak] Re: Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> too bad it's not accessible to most users.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Johnnie Apple Seed
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> >> From: "Andy Baracco" <
> >> wq6r@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> >> To: <
> >> guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> >> Cc: <
> >> whoweare@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> ; <
> >> acb-l@xxxxxxx>
> >> ;
> >>>> <
> >> ccb-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 2:14 AM
> >>>>> >> Subject: [guispeak] Fw: online internet learning session (fwd)
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>> >>>Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:43:45 -0500
> >>>>> >>>From: Lynn Evans <
> >> evans-lynn@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>
> >>>>> >>>To:
> >> VICUG-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> >>>
> >> Subject: Fw: online internet learning session
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>Hello VICUG listers
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>If you or someone you know are interested  in learning more about
> >>>>> >>>the
> >>>>> >>>power
> >>>>> >>>of the internet please go to this link below.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>Monday, November 15, beginning at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight
Time,
> >>>> 10:00
> >>>>> >>>Central, 9:00 Mountain, and 8:00 Pacific:
> >>>>> >>>Introduction to the Internet, the Web, and iVocalize. Get an
> >>>>> >>>overview
> >>>> and
> >>>>> >>>basic orientation to the power and richness of the Internet, the
> >>>>> >>>World
> >>>>> >>>Wide
> >>>>> >>>Web, and iVocalize, the software program from Talking Communities
> >>>>> >>>used
> >>>>> >>>for
> >>>>> >>>OPAL programs. Learn the basics of email, browsing, text chat,
> >>>>> >>>voice-over-IP
> >>>>> >>>conversations, searching, and information retrieval. Whether you
> >>>>> >>>want
> >>>> to
> >>>>> >>>use
> >>>>> >>>the Internet and the Web to learn, work, communicate, play, or
all
> >>>>> >>>of
> >>>> the
> >>>>> >>>above, this session will have something for you. Facilitated by
Tom
> >>>>> >>>Peters.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>If the links above aren't active please use the link below:
> >>>>> >>>http://www.opal-online.org/programs.htm
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>VICUG-L is the Visually Impaired Computer User Group List.
> >>>>> >>>To join or leave the list, send a message to
> >>>>> >>>listserv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  In the body of the message,
simply
> >>>> type
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