Thanks, Will, for those comments. From my reading I would hope some blind people in the U.K. or Europe--not singling you out of course by any means--might persue exactly what you are suggesting. What I hear from a small sampling of publishers is that they would help disabled access more but Adobe keeps changing versions on them so often andthey were burned with Adobe 5 and so many complaints from subscribers per Adobe 5. Great comments, Will. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: [guispeak] Re: eBook Accessibility > Dave; > > I don't want to deny people the right to protect their work. However, > there's technical ways for people to protect their work whilst still > allowing access by "trusted" access technologies. From what I can remember > of the press release from Adobe regarding the introduction of the "Trusted > access technology" scheme, the option to allow content extraction by access > technologies is only available to those access technologies that are trusted > under Adobe's scheme. > > The problem is, that publishers are not aware of the implications and > technicalities of allowing or not, access to PDF documents by access > technologies. So, publishers turn it off, fearing that these "access > technologies" will be able to copy their material. > > Ultimately, one solution would be for Adobe to make Reader accessible out of > the box. There's no reason why screen readers such as JAWS need use the > virtual buffer to display PDF documents, other than Adobe only support > keyboard navigation between elements in the tab sequence. This is a similar > problem to that which is facing web browsers, where the Mozilla project, > along with Sun Microsystems, are developing a keyboard navigation model for > Mozilla that allows a user to browse a web page within Mozilla in the same > manner as they would do a Word document. This indicates that it is possible > to have such a system in PDF, destroying the need for a virtual buffer, as > the PDF mark-up code is similar to HTML. > > Will > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "david poehlman" <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 4:44 PM > Subject: [guispeak] Re: eBook Accessibility > > > > Will Said: > > > > So, the only way to guarantee accessibility to PDF documents, in my > opinion, > > is for the ability to turn off content extraction by access technology to > be > > taken out of Adobe's DRM system. The other methods either have technical > or > > legal implications." > > > > Actually, restricting purchasers of tools from doing what they feel > > appropriate may not be the best course of action. I'd be in favor of > > providing a method for the right combination of tools to automatically and > > securely render content to "trusted technologies". > > > > Johnnie Apple Seed > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > To: <Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 11:07 AM > > Subject: [guispeak] Re: eBook Accessibility > > > > > > Hi; > > > > Yes, Open Book and Kurzweil do allow you to print to a virtual printer > > driver so that you may perform OCR on PDF documents. However, the problem > > with this approach in terms of the PDF digital rights management system, > is > > that a publisher can disable printing of that PDF document, rendering > > conventional OCR useless. I can think of a way to perform OCR, but it > would > > be restricted to the currently visible portion of the Window, and would be > > CPU intensive, as it would work based on the GDI GetPixel() function. > > > > So, the only way to guarantee accessibility to PDF documents, in my > opinion, > > is for the ability to turn off content extraction by access technology to > be > > taken out of Adobe's DRM system. The other methods either have technical > or > > legal implications. > > > > Will > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Laura Eaves" <leaves1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > To: <Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 9:56 AM > > Subject: Re: eBook Accessibility > > > > > > > Hi Kevin -- I have a question: Do the various book reading programs such > > as > > > OpenBook and K1000 do much the same thing as this program? I know the > > access > > > programs do much more than OCR in that they also speak and read DAISY > and > > > brf and who knows what else, but not having used any of them as yet, I'd > > be > > > interested in knowing more about pdfmagic and what exactly it translates > > the > > > pdf document to. > > > Also, there is a program called pdfconvert that I bought from > scansoft.com > > > for $49 that translates pdf docs to Microsoft Word format with all > forms, > > > images and layout preserved. Obviously this is useful for pdf access, > but > > > what I'm wondering is how this would work with a pdf doc with the > > > accessibility options turned off. I have never tried it on such a file. > > > Also, jaws 6.0 and acrobat 7.0 are now working together better than ever > > > before to make pdf docs accessible, so could you please tell me more > about > > > the access options that you say can be turned on or off by publishers? > Is > > > this still a problem? or are all pdf docs now accessible? > > > Confused... > > > Thanks in advance. > > > --le > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kevin Jones" <kevin@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > > To: <Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:46 PM > > > Subject: RE: eBook Accessibility > > > > > > > > > also, there's a program called pdf magic > > > you can buy it from > > > www.readingmadeeasy.com > > > along with other similar tools. > > > this program performs ocr on pdf files thus extracting even the locked > > ones. > > > it costs around $60 and I have found it very useful. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Programming-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:Programming-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Will > > > Pearson > > > Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:42 PM > > > To: bcab@xxxxxxxxxxxx; guispeak@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; > > > Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: eBook Accessibility > > > > > > > > > Hi; > > > > > > I've just downloaded a few e-books from Amazon, and thought I would > notify > > > you of the current state of affairs, as books are useful in a range of > > > situations. > > > > > > Whilst Adobe still allow content publishers to disallow content > extraction > > > by access technology, meaning screen readers won't be able to read books > > > that have had this option disallowed, more publishers are allowing it. > I > > > downloaded about three books published by John Wiley and son. All these > > had > > > content extraction by access technology allowed, which was something > Wiley > > > turned off in their e-books only six or so months ago. So, it looks > like > > > Wiley books are now accessible, as well as those from some smaller > > > publishers. > > > > > > Whilst persuading publishers to allow access is a difficult task, and > one > > > Adobe should have taken the lead on by not allowing them to disable > > content > > > extraction by access technology, it does seem as some of the big > > publishers > > > are now gaining social consciences. > > > > > > Will Pearson > > > Microsoft MVP > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > The Basics of Scripting Manual: > > > > > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/documentation/JAWS_Scripting_Doc > > > s/Basics_of_Scripting.exe > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting Reference: > > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/doc_scriptfunction.asp > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting manual, older version: > > > http://www.BlindProgramming.com/ftp/jfw/Scripting.exe > > > > > > Information about all of our lists: > > > http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo > > > Other blindness lists: > > > http://www.visionrx.com/library/resources/resource_int1.asp > > > Web site address: http://www.BlindProgramming.com > > > > > > For assistance: owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To subscribe: programming-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To unsubscribe: programming-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To send set commands: programming-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Programming mailing list > > > Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo/programming_blindprogramming.co > > > m > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > The Basics of Scripting Manual: > > > > > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/documentation/JAWS_Scripting_Docs/Basics_of_Scripting.exe > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting Reference: > > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/doc_scriptfunction.asp > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting manual, older version: > > > http://www.BlindProgramming.com/ftp/jfw/Scripting.exe > > > > > > Information about all of our lists: > > > http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo > > > Other blindness lists: > > > http://www.visionrx.com/library/resources/resource_int1.asp > > > Web site address: http://www.BlindProgramming.com > > > > > > For assistance: owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To subscribe: programming-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To unsubscribe: programming-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To send set commands: programming-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Programming mailing list > > > Programming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo/programming_blindprogramming.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > The Basics of Scripting Manual: > > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/documentation/JAWS_Scripting_Docs/Basics_of_Scripting.exe > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting Reference: > > http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_support/doc_scriptfunction.asp > > > > > > The JAWS Scripting manual, older version: > > http://www.BlindProgramming.com/ftp/jfw/Scripting.exe > > > > > > Information about all of our lists: > > http://blindprogramming.com/mailman/listinfo > > > Other blindness lists: > > http://www.visionrx.com/library/resources/resource_int1.asp > > > Web site address: http://www.BlindProgramming.com > > > > > > For assistance: owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To subscribe: programming-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To unsubscribe: programming-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > To send set commands: programming-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > Programming mailing list > > > 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