[gptalk] Re: GPMC

  • From: "Gary Noyes" <gwnoyes@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:05:24 -0500

Thanks Darren, I appreciate your assistance on this. I just had an interesting 
conversation with one of the original design engineers and we went over his 
thought process a little bit and it does makes sense in this environment to 
have this architecture. Bottom line is however that the OU structure is not 
going to shrink so I'm kind of stuck with this tool doing what it does.

Thanks
Gary
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Darren Mar-Elia 
  To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 11:30 AM
  Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC


  Well Gary, after being hopeful about this approach, I've now been told by my 
AD friend that this tuple index won't work, due to how GPMC implements the 
query for GP link objects. In his words, they are "stupid" about the query they 
use. Essentially, what they do is to query for GP Links using an LDAP query 
string that does not include the gpLink attribute. As a result, their queries 
won't benefit from indexing of that attribute. Too bad. Sorry about that. I'm 
definitely bringing this up with the GP product team at the MVP summit next 
month, and I'm going to do some more testing on this to see if there isn't 
another way. Its an interesting problem.

   

  Darren

   

  From: Darren Mar-Elia [mailto:darren@xxxxxxxxxx] 
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:40 PM
  To: 'gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
  Subject: RE: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

   

  Gary-

  I got some news for you. I spoke with a couple AD experts. It appears that 
there is a way to possibly improve your situation significantly, but it 
involves some AD modifications that may or may not fly in your environment.  
Essentially, AD can create something called a tuple index. This is an index 
designed exactly for the kind of searches that would occur within the gpLink 
attribute. It's a fairly expensive index to maintain but it can have a dramatic 
impact on performance. You can read about it here 
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms676931(VS.85).aspx?PHPSESSID=7c61ntavm1dmu84rl10kephll5
 , including how you can enable it on the gpLink attrib. I would, if possible, 
create a test environment that mirrors your production domain first, and try it 
there, because one of the side effects is an increase in disk usage to maintain 
the index. 

   

  If you are able to implement this, let us know how it goes.

   

  Darren

   

   

   

  From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Gary Noyes
  Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:41 PM
  To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

   

  Ok, just got an OU total, 53171 so that would stand to reason my delay when 
using that wonderful GPMC tool :-) 

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Darren Mar-Elia 

    To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

    Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:58 PM

    Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

     

    This is a big flaw in GP design, as far as I'm concerned. The fact that gp 
links are stored as a single concatenated string instead of a multi-valued 
attribute was a big mistake for larger environments.  There's effectively no 
way to speed this up, because even if you were to index this attribute in AD, 
you still end up having to parse the string for each GPO GUID. Really lame.

     

    Darren

     

    From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Gary Noyes
    Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:53 AM
    To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

     

    I'm pretty sure it's the amount of OU's as this tool hangs no matter where 
I use it from. I will try your tool and let you know.

     

    Thanks

    Gary

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Darren Mar-Elia 

      To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

      Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:53 AM

      Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

       

      You'd probably have to script it. In any case, for the enumeration to 
take minutes means you have a lot of  OUs and potentially lots of GPOs linked 
to each of those. Either that or something is broken. You might try a network 
trace from the machine running GPMC and see if anything stands out. Outside of 
that, you could downloading the trial version of my Backup Manager for GP 
product and see if it takes the same lengthy time to show links. If so, then 
you know its not a GPMC thing. 

       

      From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Gary Noyes
      Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:43 AM
      To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

       

      Don't really have a number how can I get that?

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: tools@xxxxxxxxxx 

        To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

        Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:53 AM

        Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

         

        How many OUs are we talking about here Gary? When you try to get 
information on where a given GPO is linked, GPMC is having to search the entire 
domain, looking at every container object, and searching its gpLink attribute 
for the GUID of the GPO. Those attributes are not multi-valued, which means its 
doing a string compare across each of the GUIDs in the link list. So, yes, this 
will be an expensive process. I do this in fact in one of my products and it 
usually doesn't take very long, but your environment may be very different. 

         

        Darren

         

        From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Gary Noyes
        Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:48 AM
        To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

         

        Ok, even in AD Users and Computers when you click on the links tab it 
hangs so it looks like the GPMC is probably automatically searching for all 
links when you click on a GPO. Now the question is how do I change this 
behavior with the GPMC tool?

         

        Thanks

        Gary

          ----- Original Message ----- 

          From: Darren Mar-Elia 

          To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

          Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:48 PM

          Subject: [gptalk] Re: GPMC

           

          Gary-

          I can't think of any reason this would be the case under normal 
circumstances. What might be interesting is to see if you get the same delay 
when accessing GPO information via the GPMC scripts?

           

          Darren

           

          From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of gwnoyes@xxxxxxxxxxx
          Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:02 PM
          To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
          Subject: [gptalk] GPMC

           

          We have a large AD 2003 domain, about 75 thousand objects and lots & 
lots of OUs. When I open the GPMC and click on one the GPO's it takes about 10 
minutes for it to display the information about that GPO, it hangs at an hour 
glass. I made sure the tool is pointing to the right DC and it still sits at an 
hour glass for about 10 minutes. All servers are talking on Gig links so 
bandwidth isn't a problem.

           

          If anyone has seen this an has a fix I would greatly appreciate your 
assistance with this as it drives me crazy.

           

          Thanks in advance

          Gary

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