Jakob, Thanks for your valuable information and insight. I read your articles on the Fine-grained password policies and they are very helpful. As far as auditing fine-grained PSO's are concerned- does adjusting the PSO-Applies-to attribute of a PSO log an event on the domain controllers event logs if it is changed? Can you enable auditing on a PSO the same way you can enable auditing on a GPO- oh wait- you cant set auditing on a GPO-so if you can please elaborate I would very much appreciate it as I am very interested in finding a viable way to do this. On the fingerprint reader comment-" Well, maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy;-)"- well from your pics you don't look old- but grumpy- well only you can answer that :) As far as the MS USB fingerprint reader- the software included from digitalpersona does not allow for domain logon- but with many of the new laptops that come with fingerprint readers there is new software that will allow for the use of the finger print to provide both the userid and the password- once the info is stored within the software credential manager- "for lack of a better term". I have deployed HP laptops with the built in fingerprint reader- but this is a finger print swiper with a roller on it-a bit different than the one where you just place your finger on top. Now we all love the myth busters- but in the video you sent the link to - these guys spent days recreating and getting the fingerprint fakes to work. Now as a security specialist- You have to come up with the most secure solution and recommendations- but I do think that fingerprint readers do have their place and I think that execs could make good use of this and the risk may be less that the very long passwords that they lose or end up locking their accounts with. No don't get me wrong- I still believe in strong and long passwords- but educating the execs and regular users on how to create and manage these passwords is something that is not done very well- and this is where the problem lies- and the FP reader can assist with this- especially when execs or anyone with long PW have to enter their PW several times in a user session- for example- using MS Exchange RPC/HTTPS or OWA forms based where SSO is not setup or between extranets and the such- a FP reader can be a most useful tool. I just wish it was more secure myself- and my response may have been offbase- but an FP is an ID is correct- but it can trigger the entry of a username/PW combo and that is what I was intending to deliver in my response. Omar From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jakob H. Heidelberg Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:35 AM To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [gptalk] Re: Difficulty applying policies Hi, Executives typically have more permissions and rights than other users - access to the most important company data - so what should you do with them? Require them to use longer (complex) passwords than everybody else (except maybe the admins who should have even longer passwords in most cases IMHO)! I don't think that Granular Password Policies are that tough to handle or audit - once it's setup it's actually pretty straight forward, but needs some thought and "initial adjustment" (because of the group thing): http://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Configuring-Granular-Password-Settings-Windows-Server-2008-Part-1.html http://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Configuring-Granular-Password-Settings-Windows-Server-2008-Part2.html A new article is on the way describing how to implement this "the easy way" (which could be free third party tools). But, you'll still need the WS2008 native mode as said before. If you really want multiple password policies in a W2000/2003 domain - I can recommend SpecOps Password Policy (http://www.specopssoft.com/products/specopspasswordpolicy/). Side note: A fingerprint is an ID, not a password. It's too easy to circumvent a fingerprint these days (Myth Busters? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo) - I do like the idea of biometrics, but most of those "solutions" should be in combination with a good old password. And put a token on top of that... Well, maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy;-) Best regards /Jakob H. Heidelberg From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Omar Droubi Sent: 12. januar 2008 02:40 To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [gptalk] Re: Difficulty applying policies This is a major issue many companies face: 1st thing I would ask is: Is your company bound by any regulatory compliance specifications? If so less complex passwords may violate that. 2nd- your execs need to secure their data and less complex passwords put that more at risk- but so does a very difficult password that they end up writing down. I would work with your execs and the exec assistants to understand how to meet a strong password that is easy to remember- here are a few examples: 3Golfpro$ -- this has the length- the number, special characters and upper and lower case. As far as Fine-Grained password policies- it is very important to note that this is only available when the domain is running in W2k8 native mode so all w2k w2k3 domain controllers have to be removed before you can enable that- 2nd- this is something that should be kept under wraps right now as it is hard to audit and can be a pain to setup. In the real world what I would recommend for your execs - new laptops with fingerprint readers built in- this works great for their own PC- also- if a new machine is not in the budget or they have a desktop or a 2nd machine at home- the usb connected USB fingerprint readers work great. And- for all you admins working with vista and user account control- finger print readers are great as your user account can be your index finger and your administrator account can be your middle finger- it works like a champ- if you haven't tried it-pay the 40 bucks and get one to try it out. My 2 cents hope it helps some, omar From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of mike kline Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 4:58 PM To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [gptalk] Re: Difficulty applying policies Password policies for domain accounts can't be set at the OU level. That policy is set at the domain level so your domain level policy is still being used. There are some third party tools that may help you out if you want a different policy. Windows 2008 will allow you to use fine-grained passwords so Microsoft did listen that we wanted this feature. More info on that here: http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/library/2199dcf7-68fd-4315-87cc-ade35f8978ea1033.mspx?mfr=true On Jan 11, 2008 7:37 PM, Paul Manley <paul.manley@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:paul.manley@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: Simplified Scenario: Executives can't remember their difficult passwords. So we are going to let them use smaller non-complex passwords. Let us assume that this morning I setup Active Directory on a Windows 2003 server with SP1, but no other updates and created a few users. I've installed the Group Policy Management snap-in and created a new Group Policy Object ( under the Group Policy Objects folder of our domain ) called "Exec Password Policy". I've set the [Computer Configuration]->[Windows Settings]->[Security Settings]->[Account Policies]->[Password Policies] to be less restrictive in "Exec Password Policy". I create a new Organizational Unit called "Executives" and place the users in there. Now I "Link an Existing GPO..." on my "Executives" OU selecting the "Executive Password Policy". I try to reset one of the Executives passwords, but I am not allowed: "Windows cannot complete the password change for Fred Executive because: The password does not meet the password policy requirements. Check the minimum password length, password complexity and password history requirements." Those are exactly what I have just turned off. Perhaps you could point out the error of my configuration. I have setup a VM domain this morning to do testing. - Paul -