[gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
- From: <bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:57:48 +0200
Hi tony, Darren,
Just found the KB again to remove the ADM replication from sysvol .
It's KB81338. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/813338/en-us
Vriendelijke groeten,
Cordialement,
Kind Regards,
Schillebeeks Bart
Active Directory Security Consultant
Small and Departmental Systems - NT Systems Fortis Bank
Bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AD Internet Consulting BVBA
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________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Murray [HIQ]
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:55 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Thanks Darren (and Bart and Alan).
That's interesting - it's certainly not well explained in the Microsoft
documentation.
I've done some further testing and here's what I found with the following
settings.
---------
Always use local ADM files for Group Policy editor: Not configured / Disabled
Turn off automatic updates of ADM files : Enabled
Running GPMC on XP workstation:
* ADM files are copied up to SYSVOL upon creation.
* Only the standard ADMs appear in GPEDIT.
Running GPMC on Windows 2003 member server:
* No ADM files are copied up to SYSVOL upon creation.
* All ADMs from the local %windir%\inf appear in GPEDIT.
----------
I guess the difference arises in the way that XP handles the use of local ADMs.
Note that in my test the Always use local ADM files for Group Policy editor
policy setting was set to Not Configured. I would have expected that the
behaviour to be the same for both machines upon GPO creation. Instead, the
GPMC will use local ADM files even when the Always use local ADM files for
Group Policy editor is Not Configured on W2K3, but the GPMC running on XP will
always use the SYSVOL ADMs.
I guess my confusion partly arose from this statement in KB816662:
Group Policy Management Console
By default, the Group Policy Management Console (GPMC) always uses local ADM
files, regardless of their time stamp, and never copies the ADM files to the
Sysvol. If an ADM file is not found, GPMC looks for the ADM file in the GPT.
Also, the GPMC user can specify an alternative location for ADM files. If an
alternative location is specified, this alternative location takes precedence.
This should probably be updated to read as follows:
Group Policy Management Console
By default, the Group Policy Management Console (GPMC) when running on a
Windows Server 2003 machine always uses local ADM files, regardless of their
time stamp, and never copies the ADM files to the Sysvol. If an ADM file is not
found, GPMC looks for the ADM file in the GPT. Also, the GPMC user can specify
an alternative location for ADM files. If an alternative location is specified,
this alternative location takes precedence.
Tony
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Darren Mar-Elia
Sent: Friday, 06 April 2007 09:35
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Couple of things here. The "always use local ADMs" policy does indeed only
effect you when you are editing GPO from a 2003 box. XP does not use this
policy at all. Strange, I know, but they never back-ported it to XP. So, if
you are using this policy in conjunction with the don't auto-update ADM policy,
then the behavior described below is as expected. You do need to explicitly add
(or remove ADMs) to/from a given GPO when you create it using these settings. I
guess if your ultimate goal is to always keep ADMs out of SYSVOL, then this
combination of settings works ok as long as you never edit GPOs from XP (or
Win2K). But if you do, then one of two things will happen. If the ADMs are not
in SYSVOL, then XP and 2K will choke because they don't respect the "always use
local" policy and expect to find them in SYSVOL. The alternative is that you
don't have the auto-update policy set on users of those XP and 2K machines and
then they will go ahead and populate SYSVOL with ADMs. I like the approach of
preventing replication of ADMs and just using the PDCe as the system of record,
but it does require a little extra management.
Darren
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:08 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi tony, or tom if you preferr :-)
ADM files are not copied up to the GPO in SYSVOL for new GPOs unless I
explicitly add them using Add/Remove Templates in GPEDIT.
That's because your using a windows 2003 machine to administer your gpo's.
I'm using an XP workstation with the admintools + gpmc installed, and the ADM
templates in a windows/inf upgraded to the latest windows2003 sp1 version.
on creation of a new gpo with this the standard adm's
(conf,system,inetres,inetset,wua) are copied up to the sysvol.
When i do the same on the DC itself i need to add the templates manually same
as you.
Why this behaviour differs is unknown to me as both gpmc's are the same install
version through the same kit with the same settings ? .
Maybe Darren can shed some light on this.
Vriendelijke groeten,
Cordialement,
Kind Regards,
Schillebeeks Bart
Active Directory Security Consultant
Small and Departmental Systems - NT Systems Fortis Bank
Bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AD Internet Consulting BVBA
Disclaimer:
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them
to be the views of any such entity.This Message is in no way legally binding
and has to be viewed as a personal opinion of the sender. This message reflects
in no way the views of FORTIS BANK and its associates and AD internet
Consulting BVBA and its associates. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing
information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and
does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the
terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
subject to our formal written confirmation.
AD Internet Consulting BVBA, Hezemeer 7, 2430 Eindhout-Laakdal ON:0470419019
www.adinternet.com mailto:Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Murray [HIQ]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 1:27 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi Alan and Bart
I guess I'm Tom and Tony? :-) Oh well, at least with schizophrenia you're
never alone...
So, what I think I hear you saying is that I should disable "Always use local
ADM files for Group Policy editor" and enable "Turn off automatic updates of
ADM files" instead?
When I do this I see some behaviour that I was not expecting, namely:
* ADM files are not copied up to the GPO in SYSVOL for new GPOs unless
I explicitly add them using Add/Remove Templates in GPEDIT.
* When I create a new GPO it loads all the ADM files from the local
%windir%\inf. I can remove the ADMs I don't need by using Add/Remove Templates
in GPEDIT, but I first need to add them.
Is this what you would expect? If so, it gives me a workaround but seems
kludgy.
Cheers
Tony
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Alan & Margaret
Sent: Wednesday, 04 April 2007 23:00
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi Bart,
I would accept "similar" :-)
I would just like to get it back to the old way it worked before Microsoft
tried to make it better! Only use the ADM files that sit within the policy and
never automatically update them.
Alan Cuthbertson
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2007 6:34 PM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Isn't that the same as what i've said, alan ? :-)
Vriendelijke groeten,
Cordialement,
Kind Regards,
Schillebeeks Bart
Active Directory Security Consultant
Small and Departmental Systems - NT Systems Fortis Bank
Bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AD Internet Consulting BVBA
Disclaimer:
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them
to be the views of any such entity.This Message is in no way legally binding
and has to be viewed as a personal opinion of the sender. This message reflects
in no way the views of FORTIS BANK and its associates and AD internet
Consulting BVBA and its associates. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing
information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and
does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the
terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
subject to our formal written confirmation.
AD Internet Consulting BVBA, Hezemeer 7, 2430 Eindhout-Laakdal ON:0470419019
www.adinternet.com mailto:Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Alan & Margaret
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 10:28 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi Tom & Tony
My take on this is slightly different. I prefer to disable "automatic Updates
of ADM files" and disable the "always use Local ADM Files for Group Policy
Editor" but only have those Templates in the Policy that you want to use. This
has the following advantages:_
* Limited bloat since there aren't many ADM files in the Policies
* Everyone sees the same thing on all machines
* You can have different versions of the same ADM file in different
policies
* Minimal display inside GPEDIT
* Other people cannot accidentally change your ADM files
Of course you don't have multi language support though.
When you look at ADMX files it moves in the direction of a single set of ADMX
files used by all policies on the domain. You can't load a subset for each
policy. This will give you Tom's problem of a very cluttered display. It also
means if you have one domain and a central store of ADMX files, it is a bit
difficult to test ADMX files, since if you get one wrong, no one can look at
any admx settings until you fix it. Perhaps Darren could tell us if there is a
registry setting to select a different location for ADMX files for testing. But
then, everyone does there testing in a separate domain ....
Alan Cuthbertson
Policy Management Software:-
http://www.sysprosoft.com/index.php?ref=activedir&f=pol_summary.shtml
ADM Template Editor:-
http://www.sysprosoft.com/index.php?ref=activedir&f=adm_summary.shtml
Policy Log Reporter(Free)
http://www.sysprosoft.com/index.php?ref=activedir&f=policyreporter.shtml
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2007 5:56 PM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] Re: "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi tom,
How is it going down under :-)
Normal behaviour since the editor just reads all the adm's it finds. In the
sysvol it's only the assigned templates in the gpo, Locally it's all of them
you have stocked.
Best thing to do according to me is to
* "Turn off automatic updates of ADM files" this will thus not overwrite
any sysvol adm templates with local versions.
* "When group policy is selecting a DC it should use PRIMARY DOMAIN
CONTROLLER" this makes sure you always attach to your PDC role.
* Disable ADM in NTFRS replication by setting a filter on the sysvol
replication "*.adm" in the registry , this will exclude *.adm files from
replicating. (you can find this also in a KB somewhere, lost the KB nr which it
was :-( )
You have thus a system that only allows ADM on the PDC , to which you only
connect to, your sysvol bloat is gone etc...
You now only need to maintain your local ADM files on your GPO administration
workstation to make sure they are the latest versions, of course if you have
multiple administrators you need to make sure they have the same ADM's.
This way you will select adm for the PDC's sysvol , in a normal manner, and
only see those that you've assigned.
Oh yeah Don't change PDC roles , as you will have to re-assing all adm's again
(or copy them over first)
Vriendelijke groeten,
Cordialement,
Kind Regards,
Schillebeeks Bart
Active Directory Security Consultant
Small and Departmental Systems - NT Systems Fortis Bank
Bart.schillebeeks@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
AD Internet Consulting BVBA
Disclaimer:
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except
where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them
to be the views of any such entity.This Message is in no way legally binding
and has to be viewed as a personal opinion of the sender. This message reflects
in no way the views of FORTIS BANK and its associates and AD internet
Consulting BVBA and its associates. Unless otherwise stated, any pricing
information given in this message is indicative only, is subject to change and
does not constitute an offer to deal at any price quoted. Any reference to the
terms of executed transactions should be treated as preliminary only and
subject to our formal written confirmation.
AD Internet Consulting BVBA, Hezemeer 7, 2430 Eindhout-Laakdal ON:0470419019
www.adinternet.com mailto:Sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
________________________________
From: gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gptalk-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Tony Murray [HIQ]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 5:58 AM
To: gptalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gptalk] "Always use local ADM files..." setting oddness
Hi all
I'm attempting to implement the recommendations for managing ADM files as shown
in the following KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816662
I've got a management workstation for managing GPOs (actually a VM running W2K3
SP1) and have implemented the policy "Always use local ADM files for Group
Policy editor". All seems to be ok, but for the fact that GPEDIT now loads
all of the ADM templates from %windir%\inf whenever I open a GPO for editing.
As we have quite a number of custom and other ADMs this creates a very busy
view. The "Always use local ADM files for Group Policy editor" setting
appears to make the Add/Remove Templates option redundant.
Is there any way to have the "Always use local ADM files for Group Policy
editor" setting in place and selectively add in the ADMs that I want to use for
each GPO? Put another way, can I have my cake and eat it?
Thanks
Tony
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