[gps-talkusers] Re: Roundabouts for Charles

Hi Peter,
The Sendero route algorithm for pedestrians will automatically choose the shorter distance around a roundabout so in theory this will also be the path with the fewest number of street crossings. Now this is not guarantied and maybe something I can look at in the future when deciding which way to go around a roundabout for pedestrian use but for now its a good rule of thumb. 

Thanks
Charles.

At 06:23 AM 11/28/2008, you wrote:

Many thanks Charles,
Re behaviour for pedestrians: I see what you mean, but if we knew how many exits there were, then we would know which way to go in order to cross fewer roads. For example, if it said: "Take the third of four exits, 3 o'clock", then we'd know to cross one road on the right, rather than two roads on the left.
On a more complex roundabout "Take the sixth of six exits, 4 o'clock", and we'd know not to cross any roads but take the first one to the right, rather than crossing five roads round the circle.
This still seems the most practical way to deal with a roundabout as a pedestrian. 

All the best,

Peter

At 03:12 PM 11/27/2008, you wrote:

Hi Peter,
Yes I did see this message and we discussed it internally then we posted it to our Beta List and got additional feedback. We have added two new feature requests for vehicle routes which cover your issues you posted concerning roundabouts. During the next round of development we will consider these but there is no guaranty your suggestions will make it into the next release but we have entered these into our bug/feature request system.
As for your new suggestion about pedestrian routes, I am less willing to change the current behavior as pedestrians won't know the difference between on ramps and off ramps from a roundabout and if I say take the 3rd exit 3 O'clock, does this mean you cross 3 streets or 5 streets, which is why the current pedestrian routes through roundabouts hasn't been changed. 

Thank you
Charles LaPierre
CTO Sendero Group

At 06:37 AM 11/27/2008, you wrote:

Hi Charles,
I sent this message to the list a few weeks back, perhaps while you were on vacation. There were a few replies in support of my suggestion, and without meaning to pester you, I'd really appreciate your take on this. I've added one or two clarifications to my original message, but when you get a moment, please do let us know what you think. 

Original message:
As I was one of those who asked for Sendero to handle roundabouts in a more usable way, I'd first like to thank Charles and the team for a terrific job in version 5. I have now done some long car journeys running Sendero alongside Wayfinder in order to compare how they dealt with roundabouts, with the emphasis on how useful the instructions are for the driver, but also taking into account pedestrian use. Sendero is now definitely usable for this kind of journey and I know how much work went into this, so a huge thank you. 

I do have one suggestion which I think would make for even better results.
At present, for any roundabout at all, besides the message about which exit to take, (which is working perfectly) you will hear, either when browsing or with "Approaching ..." either left turn, ten o'clock turn, or eleven-o'clock turn. This refers to the actual turn onto the roundabout, and is entirely unhelpful. It's unhelpful to the driver who does not think of the turn onto the roundabout as a left turn, and unhelpful to a pedestrian who does not walk on the roundabout, but rather needs to work out which intervening roads to cross. Similarly, when on the roundabout, the exit road will be classed as a left-turn, which is equally unhelpful.
What I am suggesting is what I have always suggested, but it's hard to put over in an Email, so let me try just once more.
The information about the turning should refer only to the road you are to take, in relation to the road you are on before you enter the roundabout. The roundabout itself should not be treated as a road. For example, let's say you have a simple four-way roundabout. You are on road A, and the roundabout joins roads A, B, C and D, going in order clockwise around the roundabout. If I am to take road B, then that is the first exit, and a left-turn. If I am to take road C, then that is the second exit, and an ahead-turn. If I am to take road D, then that is the third exit, and a right-turn.
This approach could equally well cope with more than four roads, since, for example, the fourth exit might be a two-o'clock turn, the fifth exit a four-o'clock turn and so-on, so in this case, it would say "approaching four-o'clock turn ..." and "turn four-o'clock taking fifth exit." . The crucial point is to give information about the road you are to take relative to the road you're on, and never to count the roundabout itself as a road.
Charles: if you don't agree with this as a possible improvement, please could you say why not because it seems such a clear-cut simplification for both vehicle and pedestrian use, but maybe I still haven't managed to explain it, or am missing something important.
In any case, I'm still absolutely delighted with version 5 so this is a refinement request, albeit an important one for those countries where roundabouts really are a big deal. 

All the best,

Peter

--

*******

Peter Bosher,
Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.soundlinks.com/
Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797
Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146
snail://
SoundLinks Limited,
43 Broadlands Avenue,
Chesham,
Bucks.
HP5 1AL
England.
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3645 (20081127) __________ 

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com


Charles M. La Pierre
CTO Sendero Group
"The GPS company:" Featuring Sendero GPS on the BrailleNote as well as Sense Nav and the new Mobile Geo for Windows Mobile devices. Also distributing Trekker, Victor Stream, KNFB Mobile Reader, Talks, Mobile Speak, Tiger embossers, Miniguide and ID Mate 
1-888-757-6810

Lat. 37 15' 25" N  Lon: 121 53' 04" W




--

*******

Peter Bosher,
Email: peter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.soundlinks.com/
Tel': (+44) (0) 1494 794 797
Fax: (+44) (0) 1494 583 146
snail://
SoundLinks Limited,
43 Broadlands Avenue,
Chesham,
Bucks.
HP5 1AL
England.
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3648 (20081128) __________ 

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com




Charles M. La Pierre
CTO Sendero Group
"The GPS company:" Featuring Sendero GPS on the BrailleNote as well as Sense Nav and the new Mobile Geo for Windows Mobile devices. Also distributing Trekker, Victor Stream, KNFB Mobile Reader, Talks, Mobile Speak, Tiger embossers, Miniguide and ID Mate 
1-888-757-6810

Lat. 37 15' 25" N  Lon: 121 53' 04" W

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