[gps-talkusers] Re: O&M list exchange about wayfinding

I like to think that all bus systems are in the future. Individuals on this 
list have already contacted their local transit systems and we have 3 other 
cities now in the loop discussing how to get their GPS data into the 
BrailleNote.

Here is what you can do:
Contact your local transit company and get in touch with either the access 
department or preferably the information technology department. They may 
have a GIS specialist.
Ask if they have GPS coordinates for their bus stops.
If so, email me with the contact person and I'll take it from there.
If they aren't responsive, it may take some noise from you or a local 
blindness agency to get their attention. So far, all the companies have 
been more than willing to explore the solution.

Mike


Find out if they

At 07:30 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote:
>Is NYC in the future at all for bus stops?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael May" <MikeMay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <GPS-talkusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 7:37 PM
>Subject: [gps-talkusers] O&M list exchange about wayfinding
>
>
> > I posted a message to the O&M list regarding the debut of nearly 8000
> > transit stops now incorporated into the BrailleNote GPS database for the
> > Portland Oregon area. This is a wonderful albeit expensive means of
> > obtaining one more important source of location information. My message
>set
> > off a lengthy and articulate exchange of ideas on the O&M listserve.
> >
> > From: Donna Smith <donnafsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Hi Prue.  Technology for this sort of thing is growing and improving
>almost
> > daily, and so it's a matter of finding out what meets your needs best.
> >
> > Talking Signs (with capital letters), is the registered name of a
>particular
> > product.  I think the web site is
> > www.talkingsigns.com.
> > It works on an
> > infrared signal and the speech message is transmitted to a handheld
>receiver
> > carried by the person who is blind.  It requires the person to point the
> > receiver in the direction of the signal and press a button to make the
> > connection.  When all that happens, she/he will hear a message such as
> > "entrance to transit center" or "platform 9 and three quarters" or
>whatever
> > the sign is suppose to impart.  It is technology widely used in Japan, and
> > is being expanded to be functional with a cell phone, but that's a
>research
> > project still down the road.  Here in the US there are some transit
>centers
> > who use this technology such as one of the main transit centers in San
> > Francisco.  It is also used in some museums to make information about the
> > exhibits accessible.  Talking Signs is currently trying to get Congress to
> > include provisions in the upcoming transportation act to install this
> > technology in the Washington DC area transit system, but currently it is
>not
> > widely in service here.  Ward Bond or Jeff Moyer will be glad to fill in
>the
> > real details for you.
> >
> > A more common use of speech technology in transit is a system that is tied
> > to GPS that makes automated announcements about transit stops and which
> > announces the identification of the vehicle when the doors open.  This is
> > technology installed on the vehicle, and there is usually a visual display
> > of this information that goes along with it.
> >
> > In transit stations or transfer centers specifically, there is not much
> > currently being used that involves speech messages.  A group called Touch
> > Graphics out of New York City, did a pilot project of a talking kiosk that
> > included a raised line and large print map in addition to an electronic
>map
> > complete with speech output.  This kiosk is still in operation in Penn
> > Station in NYC, but it has not been duplicated.  I spoke with Touch
>Graphics
> > a couple of weeks ago, and they are currently looking to develop similar
> > kiosks sans the raised line maps, that rely solely on a visual display and
> > speech access to give information about a transit system.  Their original
> > project in Penn Station had the same issue you mentioned in that the
>locator
> > sound, (in their case it is a birdcall), is constant and annoying to some
> > who have to spend time close to it.  In the new technology they plan to
> > develop, the locator sound will be activated via a cell phone held by the
> > user who needs the information, thus eliminating the need for it to sound
> > repeatedly when it's not in use.  You can check them out at
> > www.touchgraphics.com.
> > Steve Landau is the chief researcher and I'm sure
> > would be willing to talk to you.
> >
> > Then there is the information posted in the message from Michael May
> > regarding the interface between GPS information used for transit systems
>and
> > personal GPS devices such as the BrailleNote.  That kind of link already
> > exists for people who can use cell phones, but it is not generally made
> > available via text for use with assistive technology for people who are
> > blind...at least not with regard to transit information.  I'm hoping that
> > Michael's message about Portland is a sign that this is on the change.
> > However, this is not a universal fix as it requires the individual
>customer
> > to own and operate a device with personal GPS.
> >
> > There is a project being sponsored by the Federal Transit Administration
>and
> > the Federal Highway Administration jointly to gather together information
> > about technology that enhances mobility options for seniors and people
>with
> > disabilities.  If you want to get deeper into this topic and find out more
> > about the research out there, I can find some contact info for you.  It's
>in
> > my office, though, so I can't get my hands on it till tomorrow.
> >
> > You may also want to do a search of the publications available on the
> > Transportation Research Board's web site,
> > www.trb.org
> > and search for key
> > words you think will be helpful.
> >
> > Hope this helps.  There really is a lot of stuff available.
> > Peace and Hope,
> > Donna Smith
> > Training and Technical Assistance Specialist
> > Easter Seals Project ACTION
> > From: Ashley
> > Hi Prue,
> >
> > Donna did a good job describing the technology with talking signs.
> > No wonder people complain if the signals continually beep.  I would be
> > complaining too. I'd really recommend the type of technology that
>announces
> > major stops
> > audibally and automatically.
> > As for locating a stop, I think it would be best for people to use
> > existing landmarks in the environment rather than technology.  Also,
> > consider how many blind people your system serves and how much money you
> > wish to spend on it.
> >
> > That technology with infrared signals would probably be rather expensive.
> > Also, I'm not sure it would work unless there was a clear path between the
> > user and the sign.  I have not used such technology because its not
> > available here, but I would guess that with such a signal there could not
> > be any interference.  I wonder how practical this would be because there
> > is always people and obstacles around signs in a busy city.  Besides the
> > user has to be in close range and pointing the device in the right
> > direction for it to work.
> >
> > In my opinion, if you are in a busy area, which transit systems usually
> > are, you don't need much expensive technology.  You can always ask a
> > person for the information you can't see.
> > Ashley
> >
> > From: Mike <mailto:May@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>May@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Ashley,
> >
> > Most certainly, one should make the most of whatever situation they are
>in.
> > If one has their wits, a cane and good mobility, they can get the job
>done.
> >
> > I have to add however that having location information to make life easier
> > and to have more choices should not be strictly the province of the
> > sighted. It is such an uplifting experience to cruise around Portland
> > Oregon or Charlotte NC with as much or more information about bus stops
>and
> > the local environment as any sighted bus rider. I don't have to rely 100%
> > on the bus driver to announce my stop. If I change my mind and want to hop
> > off the bus to check some place out, I can easily do that and find a
> > transfer point effectively.
> >
> > Truly the barrier to having this independence is the funding of the
> > equipment. I'll keep improving the technology and enriching the data
> > content. I hope over time that cheaper prices and better funding will put
> > this accessibility into the hands of more blind folks worldwide.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > From: Dan Kish
> > I agree with Mike whole-heartedly. It is one thing to have the skills to
> > successfully problem solve one's way through a desert of confusing or
> > lacking information. Good travelers can do this, but at a significant
>cost.
> > It is quite another to conduct one's affairs gracefully, more
> > independently, and relatively stress free with the same access to the same
> > information that everyone else has. There's a reason for location
> > information for sighted people - it makes life a lot easier and more
> > straightforward. If it didn't, they wouldn't have it. Blind people benefit
> > in all the same ways that sighted people benefit with the right location
> > information, and they suffer in all the same ways that sighted people
>would
> > if they didn't have it.
> >
> > Here's a good example - Some of my Instructional Coaches are good Braille
> > Note GPS users. I had them accompany me on a mission through one of our
> > County parks to find and mark, using GPS, trees and rock cliffs suitable
> > for climbing for some of our younger students. There are whole groves of
> > trees and hundreds of meters of rock cliffs, so I wanted to narrow things
> > down before bringing the students. Not only did we mark suitable climbing
> > environments so we could find them again later with minimal guessing and
> > stress, but we also marked the main entrance to the park, and other key
> > areas. Each of the 3 of us are extremely accomplished travelers, and among
> > the 3 of us, we have more than enough skill to find our way around any
> > environment as needed. However, it was just positively blissful to be able
> > to walk around the whole park freely, always knowing that we could find
>our
> > way back in a relaxed way. When we were ready to return to the entrance,
>we
> > just let GPS point the way, and were comfortably free to encounter and
> > enjoy many aspects of the park that we might not otherwise have
> > encountered. Location information gives a whole dimension of comfort,
> > confidence, and independence to the travel experience, no matter how good
> > you are at it. I hear sighted people complain bitterly every time they
> > enter an area with poor signage. I just shake my head with a smile and say
> > "welcome to my world."
> > Dan
> >
> > From: Barry Laveene
> > DK:  "I, for one, don't support the convention of borrowing the eyes of
> > others in order to supplement nonvisual functioning. But, this is a
> > common practice taught and used by many with little recognition of the
> > profound implications."
> >
> > Dan, I agree with most of what you've said in your below post.  However,
> > either I'm not understanding what you meant with your above statement,
> > or I understand it... and disagree with it... at least to some extent.
> > Are you suggesting that blind people should strive to be completely
> > independent of the eyes of others?  That there should be no situation or
> > circumstance wherein we avail ourselves of that "borrowed eyesight?"
> >
> > The way I see it (no pun intended), the selective use of the eyesight of
> > other people is simply one more tool in our repertoire of orientation
> > skills... actually, in our information gathering techniques in general.
> > Should we not be availing ourselves of this tool?
> >
> > Please expand on what you meant.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > From: Dan Kish <dankish@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject:      Re: location information
> > To: OANDM@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Thanks for asking for clarification.
> >
> > When I said "I don't support the practice of borrowing the eyes of
>others",
> > I recognize that there is a time and place for just about everything. When
> > we borrow the eyes of others, we do so because we don't have access to the
> > necessary information - either because the information isn't available to
> > us, or because we don't possess the skills, confidence, or whatever to
>gain
> > access. When I travel through an airport, I may ask someone if this is the
> > right gate, or the right way to baggage, or whatever, only because I can't
> > access the signage. If I could access the signage, I wouldn't be asking..
> > When I encounter a raised or Braille sign, I don't ask others to read it,
> > because I can, even if it sometimes takes longer. When I am looking for
>the
> > right train track at Union Station, I don't ask others, because the track
> > numbers are posted on Braille placards. When I claim my bags at the
> > airport, I don't usually ask others to spot my bag, because I can spot it
> > myself by feel as it comes by. This may mean touching everyone's bag until
> > I reach mine, but I feel more comfortable doing this than having a
>stranger
> > try to spot my bag for me. When I go shopping, I generally have a clerk
> > help me find what I need, only because I can't read the labels myself. If
>I
> > know where the desired item is, I go get it myself, and check myself out.
> > With GPS, one need depend to a far lesser extent on others to narrate the
> > symbolic environment for us, allowing us to be in greater control over our
> > own movement and navigation. As perceptual technologies become better and
> > more available, we need depend less and less on the eyes of others,
> > allowing us to gain full control over our own direction. This may seem
>like
> > a stark outlook, and I don't impose it rigidly on others. Many would argue
> > that borrowing the eyes of others need not require sacrifice of self
> > direction. This is true, and not true. Of course, we who are facile
> > travelers can consult the public as needed without necessarily losing our
> > poise and self-reliance. But, there is always a price, paid sooner or
> > later. For example, I had an access driver drop me at the airport
>recently,
> > because I don't drive. Well, even if I did drive, I might prefer to take a
> > cab or have someone drop me off. But, I was dependent on this driver to
> > know where to drop me off - which is to say, I depended on him to be able
> > to follow my directions. My directions were given out of the illusion that
> > I was in control. Actually, he dropped me off at American Airlines,
>instead
> > of America West. A mistake made because I was dependent on his eyes to
>show
> > me the right way. It was an honest mistake, one which caused me to miss my
> > plane. Perceptual technology will in the foreseeable future allow one to
> > view one's own signs directly.
> >
> > The term "borrow" is a very appropriate one. We who "borrow" the eyes of
> > others to a lesser or greater extent for whatever reason are bound to
> > return something for what we've "borrowed". That is the price. I'm one who
> > prefers not to go too far into debt, so I try to "borrow" things as little
> > as possible. I find it makes for much cleaner living. As I have met more
> > and more blind people, I find that many don't even realize how dependent
> > they are on the eyes of others. They sometimes fancy themselves as
> > self-reliant, and maybe they are by some definition. Who am I to argue
>with
> > it if it seems to work. But, I also observe that, the more we rely on
> > others, however subtly, by choice or necessity, the less freedom we have
> > over our own actions. This is true above any definition of self-reliance.
> > How many of us have been in situations when there just weren't other eyes
> > around? Those of us who have, know. Boy! What a situation. Signs all
> > around, and Ne'er an eye to read them. I've striven over the last 10 or 15
> > years to heighten my own skills and perceptions to minimize the negative
> > impact of such situations on myself, and hopefully on my students.
> >
> > As I reread this, I fear it may come across as self-rightious. As I say,
>we
> > all do what we need to, because we need to. I don't fault someone for
> > asking for help to cross the parking lot or leave a restaurant if they
>need
> > help. I am just one perhaps unique in the way I gage limits and
>boundaries.
> > I was raised as a pretty staunch "do it yourself" sort of person. Even so,
> > I too had to break free of the quick sand of "have someone look ..."
>That's
> > the way most of us were trained, because there wasn't seen to be other
> > choices. It was a hard lesson to learn, one which I learned largely from
>an
> > older blind friend who's eyes had been opened before mine to the wonderful
> > world of self-reliance. He used to laugh at me when I'd have a friend
> > staple the Quaker oatmeal packets together in pears,. (When you buy these
> > boxes, they come with two packets of each of about 5 different flavors. I
> > wanted to use two packets of the same flavor, rather than two packets of
> > random flavor. So, I'd ask a friend to staple them together.) No big deal,
> > right? I never thought so. But gradually, he, and life, opened my eyes to
> > the slippery slope of self versus other reliance, and the line is a hard
> > one to draw. I guess it is for all of us, not just blind. I know many
> > sighted people far more reliant on other support then some blind people..
> > But, I've trained myself now to watch the "give and take" that the
> > situation of the blind requires us to engage in. I've seen how coworkers
> > talk behind the backs of blind colleagues who rely too much on others, for
> > instance. I've heard what people say about blind people who ask for too
> > many rides. I've seen how some of my students talk about their blind rehab
> > councelors who use their support assistant for everything.
> >
> > I believe that self directed access to the environment is the key to free
> > living. I don't necessarily mean that the environment needs to be
> > accommodated in every way for every person, although I do think that
> > there's a certain mutual societal courtesy that would be nice to be
> > observed. But whether we institute societal conventions that facilitate
> > equal access to public information, or we develop person centered
> > technologies and strategies that do this, or a combination, I think it's
> > high time.
> >
> > Dan
> > From: Barry Levine
> > Ah, thanks for the clarification.
> >
> > As with money, there are those who borrow wisely, there are those who
> > don't.
> > The key to intelligent borrowing is the ability to service the debt.  I
> > think it is neither wise, nor pragmatic, to live a life devoid of the
> > assistance of others.  For me, the goal is involvement, not total
> > self-reliance.  If I need an elbow for that involvement, that's what
> > I'll borrow.  However, I will also recognize that I'm, at that point,
> > engaged in a relationship. from which the owner of the elbow should gain
> > something.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > Over There
> > By: Cathy Anne Murtha
> > As my guide dog and I stood in line at the checkout of the River City
> > Market at CSUS, I asked the cashier what I considered a simple question..
> > "Where are the napkins please?"
> > her response was hurried, but sincere, "over there."
> > Emerging from the light rail for the first time,
> > I managed to catch the attention of a passer-by,
> > "please sir, can you tell me where I might catch
> > bus 63?"
> > A kind voice offered a pleasant response before disappearing into to the
> > cacophony of the early afternoon,
> > 'you can catch it. 'Over there.'"
> > So many things reside over there - napkins, bus stops, pencils, pens,
> > clothing racks, department stores and even my shoes! A never ending supply
> > of important and indispensable items and locales all reside in this place
> > which is
> > shrouded in mystery and intrigue.
> > I stand in perplexed silence after learning that something is over there.
> > It is a place I have never been and have no hope of finding on my own. My
> > guide dog is quite skilled in finding chairs, stairs, elevators,
> > escalators, helping me cross streets, and can even find me the Diet Pepsi
> > display at Food Town;
> > however, when I tell her to find "over there" her little bottom hits the
> > floor and a small whimper tells me that she is as confused as I.
> > We will not be going "over there" today. Over there has caused me a bit of
> > vexation, a lot of confusion, and, on occasion, made my heart race.
> > I have discovered that "over there" can be a dangerous place. One day,
> > While crossing a street, I heard a driver's irritated voice shout out a
> > warning of a truck bearing down on me from over there. Shadow artfully
> > dodged the oncoming vehicle and pulled me to the safety of the curb. Our
> > hearts were both racing as we took a few moments to compose ourselves.
> > Close encounters with over there can be frightening experiences.
> > Although many blind people have wondered as to the exact location of "over
> > there," few have dared to venture forth in an actual exploration of the
> > mysterious place.
> > One day, while standing in line at the supermarket, I asked the clerk
> > where I might find the aspirin. With a cheery smile in her voice, she
> > informed me that the aspirin was located "over there." With a weary sigh,
> > I decided that I would take the extra step that would unravel the mystery,
> > which had vexed
> > my compatriots since the beginning of time.
> > Taking a deep breath, and attempting to look nonchalant, I smiled at the
> > clerk, "Where," I asked, "is over there?" I imagined the girl's shocked
> > expression.
> > I felt her sharing condescending and concerned looks with her fellows in
> > the store. The silence grew palpable as they mulled the possibility of
> > allowing a blind person access to the forbidden land. She had no choice;
> > she would
> > have to tell me how to find "over there!" I had won! Exhilaration swept
> > through me as I waited in breathless anticipation. A victorious smile
> > crept to my lips, my hand tightened on the handle of Shadow's harness, we
> > would soon be going over there!
> > The clerk's voice reeked with resignation as the decision was
> > made. "That way." She said
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael G. May
> >
> >
> > CEO Sendero Group
> >
> > Developers and distributors of BrailleNote GPS
> > Now distributing BrailleNote, VoiceNote, Miniguide, The Tissot Silen-T
> > tactile watch and the ID Mate, bar code reader
> >
> > MikeMay@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.SenderoGroup.com
> >
> > (530) 757-6800, Fax (530) 757-6830, Mobile (530) 304-0007
> > Sendero Group, LLC
> > 1118 Maple Lane, Davis, CA 95616-1723, USA
> >
> > Latitude, 38 33 9.239 North
> > Longitude, 121 45 40.145 West
> >
> >
> >

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