[geocentrism] Re: papal infallibility

For those who don't understand the Catholic dogma of papal infallibility, look 
at the first book written by pope Benedict XVII on matters concerning the 
Faith, but as the pope claims in his book: «... it is not part of the 
Magisterium, everybody is free to refute me».   It doesn't matter if a pope 
says that what he writes is infallible, what makes his teachings infallible is 
when he speaks or write «ex cathedra» or when he speaks or writes the beliefs 
and teachings of the Church from the beginning.
MV

Father John Zuhlsdorf was at the presentation of the Pope’s book, Jesus of 
Nazareth in the Aula del Sinodo on Friday 13 April 2007 and offers a lengthy 
account of his first impression:  
It is not new to receive a book from a Pope. In the past, they were the fruits 
of interviews, or they were biographical or poetry. But this is a work of 
theology. That’s new. Even though it is a work of theology, it is not a 
contribution to the Magisterium. That’s new. This point was heavily stressed in 
the presser. This book is a contribution of “Joseph Ratzinger” to all who are 
interested in Jesus. The novelty of this book is its context, coming as it does 
from a Pope. . . .
http://www.popebenedictxvifanclub.com/blog/


----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Neville Jones
Sent: 14 avril 2007 07:56
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Forsaken Roots

We have communicated now for several years, Philip, and throughout that time I 
have always perceived you to be honest, genuine and questioning. I do not 
understand the distinction between the "real" Catholic Church and what I 
observe to be the Catholic Church, but I respect your position. However, a very 
large number of people are dishonest and you and I know from experience that 
such people extend throughout any religion, Catholicism and Judaism included.

Now, if you accept that the Devil really does exist (and I only came to this 
conclusion last year), and if you accept that he can manifest himself as an 
angel of light, then we all have to face the fact that the sole reason for 
manifesting himself thus is to lead people astray - i.e., to deceive as many as 
possible. Does this not account perfectly for the fact that there are 
apparently over 28,000 different sects, denominations, cults, ..., within the 
so-called Christian category alone. And what about the Jews and the Muslims, do 
they not argue amongst themselves as to meaning and interpretation constantly. 
The Sunnis, the Shi-ites, the Orthodox Hassidic, the Revisionist, ... We cannot 
put all of this down to lost meaning in ancient languages or translation. Even 
using our intellect, we must see that this confusion and these contradictions 
are designed, planned, deliberate.

You have used a combination of your spirit and your intellect to discount 
certain popes as being false, in doing that you have held fast to your belief 
in the fundamentals of the Catholic Church. All I have done is use my spirit 
and my intellect to reject large sections of the "Old Testament," in 
particular, based solely upon my belief in God.

Instead of never-ending debates, interpretations, word studies, etc., do we not 
instantly obtain two things simply by recognizing the Devil for what he is:

1. Harmony and agreement.
2. A view of the world which enables us to make sense of what is going on 
around us.

It is not adequate for anyone to state that the Bible is God-breathed simply 
because the Bible claims itself to be so (2 Tim. 3:16, from memory). Such a 
claim must be in harmony with the Spirit. This is where the intellect must give 
way to the joining of our spirit with the Spirit of God.

Best wishes,

Neville.


philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
but are you not in danger of abandoning your responsibility in this respect by 
accepting the conclusions of the Council of Trent, or Cardinal Belarmine (my 
apologies - I can see that I have spelt his name wrongly, but cannot remember 
the correct spelling at the moment), or Pope JP2, or whoever?  Neville..


No apology needed.  I would probably have spelt it the same way..   

However you may have misread me, but you know from experience of my previous 
utterings that "my responsibility" prevents me from falling into the trap of 
blind obedience. This is where intellect is guided by the spirit perhaps, but 
if the Spirit intervenes with every individual, then He is certainly a 
complicated and confused person, given the variety of contradictions among most 
of the people, Catholic or not Catholic.  

I would accept the Council of Trent as dogmatic, but not Bellarmine. But I 
should not entirely trust my interpretation of Trent, it being a very 
complicated Latin presentation. I would listen to Bellarmine because he was 
closer to it, and had more authority than I..  I also allow my intellect, or 
the Spirit if you prefer, to abandon almost all of what popes Paul VI , or any 
of his successors say or have said , simply because they have shown themselves 
to be either confused or anti-catholic.. more probably the latter.  

The trouble with the spirit Neville is a very troublesome problem for the 
reasons I gave.  Scripture says ( I cannot find where) we must test the Spirit 
in all things..  To do that we must have intellect and reason.  

Are we not  in danger of abandoning our responsibility in accepting the 
conclusions of men whether they be other men or ourselves, deluded as we may 
well be by false spirits.  


God must be worshipped in spirit and in truth. You cannot have one without the 
other.  Truth can be ascertained by correct reason. Discerning the Spirit 
outside of Scripture is not so cut and dried. As you have chosen to censor 
scripture, and reject large portions of it, how can you be certain of the 
authenticity of your "spirit" without intellect?  

Finally I have no dispute with this:   
it is not primarily intellect, but a striving of the spirit towards truth and 
constant prayer to request wisdom and understanding. That is why Christ states 
that we shall know the truth, rather than unravel it or work it out.  
Provided we are on track, He will give to our intellect the grace of 
comprehension.  But Neville, both you and I know people who strive with 
constant prayer , but who are on many differing tracks....So what striving, and 
on what track was Paul, when he took the road to Damascus?  

Philip.  


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