[no subject]





From: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 7:12:46 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Uranus






Paul,=20
=A0
When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very h=
eart of the issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentat=
ion" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those=
 I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your ar=
guments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or ph=
ysical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are=
 logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... you=
rs are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Uranus
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:11 AM







Paul,=20
=A0
When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very h=
eart of the issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentat=
ion" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those=
 I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your ar=
guments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or ph=
ysical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are=
 logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... you=
rs are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...
=A0
=A0

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM








Allen D
=A0
The problem here is that your definition of rotation and its application is=
 under challenge and you will do anything to avoid discussing the issue -- =
contempt, prevarication, obfuscation, diversion, pretence that you posed so=
me other question -- it goes on and on ad nauseam. I -- and others -- labou=
r under the assumption that you are a reasonable man and so we try to treat=
 with you as though you are that reasonable man. But what we get is your fa=
natical defence of your=A0questionable definition. This puts us at a signif=
icant disadvantage because you do not treat us as reasonable people.
=A0
To show that I at least will persevere, state plainly what is the question =
which you have given me and I will address it, if you in turn will address =
the question of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and its rate of =
rotational angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definitions must =
be used since you have also resolutely avoided explanation of your private =
definition. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time and make som=
e progress.
=A0
Paul D


PS Three days in a row now you have posted the same message twice. Why so?



From: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Uranus






Paul,=A0=A0Your nonsense is simply using the word "turn"=A0to attempt to cl=
aim=A0proof for what=A0constitutes your definition of it,=A0 which is the v=
ery thing under consideration..!?!
=A0
Deal with what=A0I have given you ........linguistic acrobatics and diversi=
ons from the issue=A0is not doing your=A0argument any good....
=A0
"the characteristics of Mercury's motions"=A0 the nature of those motions P=
aul is what we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit tryi=
ng to claim your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your argumen=
ts?!..=20
=A0
Just more nonsense from you ...oh when oh when, will it ever end?......









=A0

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM








Allen D

I guess you missed it. Here is the relevant portion again with the key word=
 highlighted -
=A0

I have=A0a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The =
turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking fro=
m above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial =
velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin to turn=
 in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what?=20
And the matter of your abysmal ignorance of the characteristics of Mercury'=
s motions?????
=A0
I was saving this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of your =
illustrations which I have augmented. Care to comment?
=A0
Paul D






From: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Uranus






=A0"guess what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at=
 me!!!=A0"...Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the gr=
ound and don't=A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rota=
tion!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a comm=
on pont that lay within the body itself......=A0
That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't=
 fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning!=A0 congragulations, whe=
n you stoped you observed=A0the inertial effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh b=
ut wait,...... it was not rotating earlier....because it=A0was prevented fr=
om rotating by the mechanical friction!=A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mer=
cury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples t=
he synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattion t=
hen it would not and cannot be synchronous..
=A0
Phil shows us a rotation that is prevented and attempts to claim that preve=
ntion of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and now you=A0offer us=A0the=
 fact that somthing did=A0not=A0rotate as evidence that it rotated?!=A0....=
....... the diversion here is yours...now answer the chalenges ..your empty=
, vain=A0 accusations and words weary me....=20

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Uranus
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:29 AM







=A0"guess what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at=
 me!!!=A0"...Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the gr=
ound and don't=A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rota=
tion!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a comm=
on pont that lay within the body itself......Phil shows us a rotation that =
is prevented and attempts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates=
 a rotation!?....and now you=A0offer us=A0the fact that somthing did=A0not=
=A0rotate as evidence that it rotated?!=A0
=A0
=A0
That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't=
 fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning!=A0 congragulations, whe=
n you stoped you observed=A0the inertial effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh b=
ut wait,...... it was not rotating earlier....because it=A0was prevented fr=
om rotating by the mechanical friction!=A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mer=
cury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples t=
he synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattion t=
hen it would not and cannot be synchronous... the diversion here is yours..=
.now answer the chalenges ..your empty and vain words weary me....=20
=A0
=A0
=A0

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM







Allen D

I have=A0a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The =
turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking fro=
m above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial =
velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin to turn=
 in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? The arrow head I pai=
nted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!=A0That I believe is synchroni=
sm. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the tur=
ntable is still turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have read your various th=
eses!
=A0
You entreat Philip to answer one of your challenges. One of the standard Al=
len Daves diversionary tactics -- pretend not to have noticed the solitary =
challenge to you and reply with many of yours thought up on the spur of the=
 moment. While you are thinking on this, note that I have noted your non-re=
sponse to my highlighting of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orbit an=
d rotation of Mercury (note the spelling. Not even American usage=A0can exc=
use "Murcury"). Can we expect that you will correct this oversight?
=A0
Paul D

=A0



From: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Uranus






Phil,
=A0
"we are going around in "circles" getting nowhere..."
=A0
I=A0said this is where=A0the discussion =A0is "going" .....(pun intended)..=
......but I=92m going to try yet once more to get you to answer even a sing=
le challenge of mine to=A0you....I keep having to address your=A0 challenge=
s or otherwise my words mean=A0nothing so you said...=A0but you don=92t see=
m to see the point of addressing mine.......ummmm..well here is a "turntabl=
e" type example see attached and answer!=20
=A0=20
=A0=A0"BUT IT WILL NOT BE SO.=A0 IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREES AWAY FROM Y=
OU..=A0 You can believe me I have actually done this several times."..I kno=
w i addressed that many times..."=20
But to get them syncronous ..that does not happen does it!....Therefore, yo=
u cannot lay claim to=A0a effect that does not exist when they are syncroni=
zed as=A0your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncronised it does not exis=
t.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would see it and that would be =
a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them to syncronize you must n=
egate that effect!....by the way=A0which way does it rotate clokwise or cou=
nter clockwise?...ummm....=A0=A0.........as i have pointed out .....it take=
s a force to prevent that rotation,........ you still show us no rotation i=
n the same direction of the orbit=A0......... At best on a good day this co=
uld only be considered=A0to be =A0a prevention of rotational motion not=A0a=
 demonstration of a rotation!?!=20



=A0


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--0-263713824-1229614640=:54273
Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><BR>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok=
....Paul&nbsp;your own source demonstrates that was&nbsp;one view point at =
one time.......my analogy&nbsp;was based on old idea...and Im happy to corr=
ect the 1:1 to 2:3&nbsp; Gravitational /"tidal lock" &nbsp;&nbsp;<A href=3D=
"http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus=
.htm" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrest=
rial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
e tether ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would n=
ot apply to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have the s=
ame motions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</SPAN><=
/DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
is does not help your argument or your positions&nbsp;and you still refuse =
to address the issue before us....If you took the orbit away you could stil=
l observe a rotation....thus the motions can be isolated and separated from=
 each other...therefore we can consider mercury to have a real rotation aro=
und a common point that lay within mercury itself.......this does not hold =
true for the moon nor did it hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Scienc=
e" thought it had way back when......</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
anks for the mercury correction=85now please address the arguments put befo=
re you=85</SPAN></DIV><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allen=
daves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Sub=
ject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Thursday, December 1=
8, 2008, 7:03 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv381951044>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok=
....Paul&nbsp;your own source demonstrates that was&nbsp;one view point at =
one time.......my analogy&nbsp;was based on old idea...and Im happy to corr=
ect the 1:1 to 2:3&nbsp; Gravitational /"tidal lock" &nbsp;&nbsp;<A href=3D=
"http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus=
.htm" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrest=
rial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
e tether ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would n=
ot apply to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have the s=
ame motions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</SPAN><=
/DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
is does not help your argument or your positions&nbsp;and you still refuse =
to address the issue before us....If you took the orbit away you could stil=
l observe a rotation....thus the motions can be isolated and separated from=
 each other...therefore we can consider mercury to have a real rotation aro=
und a common point that lay within mercury itself.......this does not hold =
true for the moon nor did it hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Scienc=
e" thought it had way back when......</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Th=
anks for the mercury correction=85now please address the arguments put befo=
re you=85</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<=
/I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Su=
bject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: T=
hursday, December 18, 2008, 3:24 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1986817547>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 DIV {margin:0px;}--=
></STYLE>

<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV>Allen D</DIV>
<DIV><BR>OK -- this seems like just another one of those things you refuse =
to discuss.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Well if you won't discuss it, please provide me with a reference which=
 refutes the description of Mercury's rotation and revolution&nbsp;found (a=
mong many others) here -</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>&nbsp;<A href=3D"http://physics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20to=
day/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.HTM" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://=
physics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT308=
03.HTM</A>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>... and which supports your description below -</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>[geocentrism] Uranus<BR>From <A href=3D"mailto:allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxx=
om" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> Sun Dec 14=
 23:42:54 2008</DIV>
<DIV>Hint:&nbsp; as with the tether ball and the synchronous orbit of mercu=
ry.( it keeps the same side facing the sun at all times).......there is no =
rotation or rotational force in either.... There is only a force or resista=
nce that prevents a rotation, there is no rotation and no cause for a rotat=
ion...Rotation is prevented not sustained in mercury.... </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><=
BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allendave=
s.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WE=
IGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 7:12:46 PM<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR=
></FONT><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Pa=
ul, </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Wh=
en you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very hea=
rt of the issue, all you keep trying to&nbsp;do &nbsp;add "layers of argume=
ntation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing t=
hose I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why you=
r arguments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and o=
r physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine=
 are logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe.........=
 yours are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...</SPAN><BR=
><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</=
I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Sub=
ject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16=
, 2008, 11:11 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1751651961>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Pa=
ul, </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Wh=
en you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very hea=
rt of the issue, all you keep trying to&nbsp;do &nbsp;add "layers of argume=
ntation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing t=
hose I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why you=
r arguments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and o=
r physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine=
 are logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe.........=
 yours are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...</SPAN></D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&=
gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Su=
bject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: T=
uesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1754845138>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #yiv=
1754845138 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>

<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Allen D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>The problem here is that your definition of rotation an=
d its application is under challenge and you will do <I>anything</I> to avo=
id discussing the issue -- contempt, prevarication, obfuscation, diversion,=
 pretence that you posed some other question -- it goes on and on <I>ad nau=
seam</I>. I -- and others -- labour under the assumption that you are a rea=
sonable man and so we try to treat with you as though you are that reasonab=
le man. But what we get is your fanatical defence of your&nbsp;questionable=
 definition. This puts us at a significant disadvantage because you do not =
treat us as reasonable people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></FONT><FONT size=3D3>To show that I at least will persevere, state pl=
ainly what is the <FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial>question which you =
have given me and I will address it, if you in turn will address the questi=
on of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and its rate of rotational=
 angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definitions must be used si=
nce you have also resolutely avoided explanation of your private definition=
. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time and make some progress=
.</FONT></FONT><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">P=
S Three days in a row now you have posted the same message twice. Why so?</=
DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><=
BR><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allendave=
s.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WE=
IGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR=
></FONT><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Pa=
ul,&nbsp;&nbsp;Your nonsense is simply using the word "turn"&nbsp;to attemp=
t to claim&nbsp;proof for what&nbsp;constitutes your definition of it,&nbsp=
; which is the very thing under consideration..!?!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&n=
bsp;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">De=
al with what&nbsp;I have given you ........linguistic acrobatics and divers=
ions from the issue&nbsp;is not doing your&nbsp;argument any good....</SPAN=
></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"the characteristics of Mercury's motions"&nbsp; <SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">the nature of those motions =
Paul is what we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit try=
ing to claim your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your argume=
nts?!.. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ju=
st more nonsense from you ...oh when oh when, will it ever end?......</SPAN=
><BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV id=3Dyiv515659634>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></=
SPAN></DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-seri=
f'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&=
gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Su=
bject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: T=
uesday, December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1132363009>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #yiv=
1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>

<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 36pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Allen D</DIV>
<DIV><BR>I guess you missed it. Here is the relevant portion again with the=
 key word highlighted -</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>I have&nbsp;a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long a=
go. The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, <STRONG><FONT col=
or=3D#ff00ff size=3D7>turn</FONT></STRONG> it&nbsp;CW (looking from above) =
and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial velocity =
which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin to<STRONG><FONT =
size=3D7> <FONT color=3D#ff00ff>turn</FONT></FONT></STRONG> in the same dir=
ection at the same rate -- guess what? </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>And the matter of your abysmal ignorance of the characteristics of Mer=
cury's motions?????</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I was saving this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of =
your illustrations which I have augmented. Care to comment?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><=
BR>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allendave=
s.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WE=
IGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR=
></FONT><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><EM>&nbsp;"guess what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays=
 pointing at me!!!&nbsp;"...</EM><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if =
you take that same aparatus down on the ground and don't&nbsp;do anything .=
...&nbsp;you still get&nbsp; geuss what?....no rotation!......ge we are loo=
king for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pont that lay within =
the body itself......</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM>That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (s=
o I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning!&nbsp;</EM> <FO=
NT color=3D#0000ff>congragulations, when you stoped you observed&nbsp;the i=
nertial effects to <U><STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wait,.=
..... it was not rotating earlier....because it&nbsp;was prevented from rot=
ating by the mechanical friction!&nbsp; Just like&nbsp;the the moon and mer=
cury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!?&nbsp; In all your example=
s the synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattio=
n then it would not and cannot be synchronous..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Phil shows us a rotation that is prevented and a=
ttempts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....a=
nd now you&nbsp;offer us&nbsp;the fact that somthing did&nbsp;not&nbsp;rota=
te as evidence that it rotated?!&nbsp;..........</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000f=
f>. the diversion here is yours...now answer the chalenges ..your empty, va=
in&nbsp; accusations and words weary me.... </FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 1=
2/16/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DI=
V>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Sub=
ject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16=
, 2008, 8:29 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv2076703010>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><EM>&nbsp;"guess what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays=
 pointing at me!!!&nbsp;"...</EM><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if =
you take that same aparatus down on the ground and don't&nbsp;do anything .=
...&nbsp;you still get&nbsp; geuss what?....no rotation!......ge we are loo=
king for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pont that lay within =
the body itself......Phil shows us a rotation that is prevented and attempt=
s to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and now=
 you&nbsp;offer us&nbsp;the fact that somthing did&nbsp;not&nbsp;rotate as =
evidence that it rotated?!&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM>That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (s=
o I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning!&nbsp;</EM> <FO=
NT color=3D#0000ff>congragulations, when you stoped you observed&nbsp;the i=
nertial effects to <U><STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wait,.=
..... it was not rotating earlier....because it&nbsp;was prevented from rot=
ating by the mechanical friction!&nbsp; Just like&nbsp;the the moon and mer=
cury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!?&nbsp; In all your example=
s the synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattio=
n then it would not and cannot be synchronous... the diversion here is your=
s...now answer the chalenges ..your empty and vain words weary me.... </FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&=
gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Su=
bject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: T=
uesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=3Dyiv1109915657>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #yiv=
1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 #yiv2076703010 #yiv1109915657 DIV {=
margin:0px;}--></STYLE>

<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Allen D</DIV>
<DIV><BR>I have&nbsp;a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long lo=
ng ago. The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it&nbsp;=
CW (looking from above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity=
 of the radial velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey an=
d begin to turn in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? The a=
rrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!&nbsp;That I be=
lieve is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on =
my donkey) the turntable is still turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have re=
ad your various theses!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>You entreat Philip to answer one of your challenges. One of the standa=
rd Allen Daves diversionary tactics -- pretend not to have noticed the soli=
tary challenge to you and reply with many of yours thought up on the spur o=
f the moment. While you are thinking on this, note that I have noted your n=
on-response to my highlighting of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orb=
it and rotation of Mercury (note the spelling. Not even American usage&nbsp=
;can excuse "Murcury"). Can we expect that you will correct this oversight?=
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, time=
s, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allendave=
s.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WE=
IGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR=
></FONT><BR>
<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=3Dtop>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>Phil,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM>"we are going around in "circles" getting nowhere..."</EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I&nbsp;sa=
id this is where&nbsp;the discussion &nbsp;is "going" <I>.....(pun intended=
)........</I>but I=92m going to try yet once more to get you to answer even=
 a single challenge of mine to&nbsp;you....I keep having to address your&nb=
sp; challenges or otherwise my words mean&nbsp;nothing so you said...&nbsp;=
but you don=92t seem to see the point of addressing mine.......ummmm..well =
here is a "turntable" type example <B><U>see attached and answer!</U></B></=
FONT></SPAN>=20
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN>=20
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE=
: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"><EM>&nbsp;&nbsp;"BUT IT WILL NO=
T BE SO.&nbsp; IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREES AWAY FROM YOU..&nbsp; You can=
 believe me I have actually done this several times."..I know i addressed t=
hat many times..."</EM></SPAN>=20
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">But to ge=
t them <STRONG><U>syncronous</U></STRONG> ..that does not happen does it!..=
..</SPAN><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'=
">Therefore, you cannot lay claim to&nbsp;a effect that does not exist when=
 they are syncronized as&nbsp;your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncron=
ised it does not exist.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would see =
it and that would be a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them to =
syncronize you must negate that effect!....by the way&nbsp;which way does i=
t rotate clokwise or counter clockwise?...ummm....<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN>=
&nbsp;</SPAN>.........<SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial',=
 'sans-serif'"><FONT color=3D#0000ff>as i have pointed out .....it takes a =
force to prevent that rotation,........ you still show us no rotation in th=
e same
 direction of the orbit</FONT></SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;......... At best on a goo=
d day t</SPAN>his could only be considered&nbsp;to be &nbsp;<U><STRONG>a pr=
evention of rotational motion not&nbsp;a demonstration of a rotation!?! </S=
TRONG></U></SPAN></FONT><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV id=3Dyiv210522663>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><=
/DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. <A href=3D"http://au.=
rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p=
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r now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
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r now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV><BR>
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r now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
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