Philip, It says here that a Church is not an Ecclesia. Bernie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://sites.google.com/site/educatesouls/antichurch The typical preacher is nothing more than a salesman taking advantage of weak-minded people. Preachers are usually motivated by their own self-centered greed. Churches serve the preachers by providing a forum for their childish ambitions. I've personally been associated with many preachers. I understand them better than most. With few exceptions, they are religious con men, working angles to gain recognition and money. Preachers are actors. The Charismatic Movement has helped to produce a flood of them. Churchgoers have come to expect nothing more than emotion and stage performance from churches. They are satisfied by entertainment, excitement, or scandal. They do NOT expect to be taught! They only want to sit and observe. Churches have produced nothing practical. Churchgoers expect nothing practical from churches. Indeed, churches have achieved their goal -- to neutralize Christians! --- On Thu, 1/8/09, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it. To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 1:52 PM "The first religious use of a cross was for Tammuz, the Babylonian Son of the Sun. Catholics still celebrate his birthday every Christmas. Bernie. Bernie, I know what you meant to say, but if you look at your words you are falsely accusing me and others of worshipping the sun on Christmas day.. The 25th of December was arbitarily chosen , having no relation to the real birthday of Jesus, as a day to celebrate this feast, simply because in the Empire of the time, this was the closest holiday where none was obliged to go to work. It could be said that this pagan holiday was consecrated to Christ, and became His day due to the conversion of the masses. Likewise, the temples were taken and blessed and consecrated as places of Christian worship. This was notably done in South America as Christianity took over from the pagans there. .. Modernism, and protestant influence changed the Catholic "Christ Mass" from the "holy" day to 'holiday" Christmas, and finally to "merry xmas" as it still is today.. More like luciferian blackmass. Even in Rome. Would you suggest the buildings should be destroyed? I worship in a protestant church building today. We bought it. The Bishop consecrated it, and exorcised the devil from it first. LOL! We do the same to any Catholic buildings we buy, since they have been used for heretical pagan practises by the NEW Church. They have to be cleansed. Philip.