[geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "geocentrism list" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:07:24 +1000
This post I saved, because it demanded a retaliation! I retaliate below!
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:30 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
Philip M
Yes -- you may call it 'making an assumption' and I won't argue since
definitive evidence isn't available. But a supreme intelligence organising or
staging a specific event is also an assumption, especially from a period so
long ago. Which is an admission by Paul, that History is biased according to
who writes it and who is in government. .. Please keep that in mind when you
specifically refer to who did anything or what, or why, in the distant past,
and/or the current world. The reason I exempt THE religion and its history of
such bias, and separate the true religion from all of the contenders, is that
moral honesty is reflected in self criticism.. From the Bible first, Judas
records failure from within. Even Peter. Jump to later Catholic recorded
history, when our church burnt a saint at the stake! And today, all of the
failures of the modern vatican, all recorded, and to be preserved for the
future in our own history. However Paul, more recent events are well recorded
in media by both sides of history, both secular and religious, first at
Lourdes, and later at Fatima 1917, that are undeniably supernatural.. Even my
Protestant friends admit it, but blame the dark side...
Concerning voluntary martyrdom -- I have a Sunday morning recollection from
long long ago suggesting that the Pope of the day had spoken out or forbidden
such actions as 'forcing God's hand'. Martyrdom was valid only when you
resigned yourself to your fate when forced upon you by others. Yes, you have
the true Catholic perspective on that. But it was never condemned as suicide,
when thousands of missionary priests volunteered to go to Islamic countries to
convert the pagans, knowning full well that over 90% of them would never last
very long. Their heroic deaths did convert many. I think Islam has still to
draw this conclusion. I would however, definitely question your suggestion that
drugs are needed. We have three recent appalling examples demonstrating that
this is not necessary -- Jim Jones, David Koresh and Do (of Heaven's Gate). I'm
sure there are many other similar events. David Koresh ? What a horrible
distorted knowledge of the Waco event you have! About the only thing he and
his followers were killed for was their belief in the right to practise their
own religion, and more specifically to bear arms, a right I defend in any free
society. Even the openly available media release turned me against government
agencies like the BATF.
It is obvious to me that you have no idea of the horrible crimes the US
government perpetrated on innocent civilians at Waco.. Which is typical of your
usual blind faith and dependence upon a controlled media, for anything you
believe. I do at least question even the Vatican and the Pope, when they are
seen to deviate, as you well know, which is the correct way of religious faith.
There is a video exposing the truth of Waco, of Russian involvement, US
military weapons, (unconstitutional) Local media TV that was censored from the
world at large, but I doubt your faith would allow you to view it. They were
murdered cold bloodedly, with no chance to surrender.. Some tried to surrender
and were shot at the fence. The FBI agents shot were shot by their own side,
marked for assassination, because they were witnesses against Clinton in an
upcoming charge.
Philip.
Paul D
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From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism list <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 11:33:36 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
Paul said.
"The council of Nicaea interests me because it is the forum which gave such
weight to the views of Paul the Roman while sidelining Luke the Greek and
others. It is from such random events that history is made and religious dogma
develops. Had Luke et al been more politically acceptable in a Roman world,
surely Christianity today would be quite different."
Paul, nothing monumental about that statement? History is formed by events.
But you make a presumption that every event is random, simply becauise you
refuse to accept, for no real good reason, that a supreme Intelligence can
organise events. Even intervene with a specific event, as happened 2000 years
ago. I find it very difficult to believe that many thousands of quite
ordinary, and some many thousands of quite extraordinary people would
voluntarily throw themselves to the lions or the fire, without there having
been some sort of extraordinary supernatural events driving them . Of course
one could point out that others of another extreme will happily (we are told)
volunteer for explosive suicide duty, which cannot be due to any such
experience for Islam. But surely you can appreciate the different
circumstances.. These latter came out of life long indoctrinated extremism of
drug induced endorphins perhaps, whereas the former calmly made reasoned
decisions based upon supernatural evidence presented, becoming born anew, and
completely rejecting their lifelong held beliefs and life style.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
Philip M
I missed the incongruity you highlight. Caught me he did. However I counter
with the observation that many words in language are contractions of earlier
expressions. Contemporary example (in advertising commercials) " ...
Australia's favourite air! " (For those not living in this fair land -- for air
read 'air conditioning'). Also "Put it in the microwave for 30 seconds," or "I
saw it on the television." Microwave receiver? Television transmitter? I think
you get the picture.
The council of Nicaea interests me because it is the forum which gave such
weight to the views of Paul the Roman while sidelining Luke the Greek and
others. It is from such random events that history is made and religious dogma
develops. Had Luke et al been more politically acceptable in a Roman world,
surely Christianity today would be quite different.
For the record, I'm not an "... antiCatholic antichrist, antiGod self
confessed athiest ... " as you say. You would be aware of the difference
between passive and active support for a given action. 'Anti' implies active.
Somewhere in my memory of Sunday mornings, there is the recollection of a
homily which drew attention to ... Jesus said "If they are not for us they are
against us," and at another time ... Jesus said "If they are not against us
they are for us." I just think that as people become better educated, more
widely read, they will see religion for the invention that it is and support
for it will decline further till eventually it will pretty much lose its
influence in the world. That is not to say that the temporal values will be
lost or abandoned. They exist in non Christian non Jewish non Islamic -- lumped
together as pagan I suppose -- societies anyway. The values I speak of are
utilitarian and will be discovered by any society eventually with or without
'divine revelation'.
Paul D
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From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 7:39:18 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
Oh how they hate the Cross... Shame on you Paul. They , even Rome, who
would help promote the lies, any lie, to change the tradition of a cross
support the Jewish High Priest, who denied He was the King of the Jews.. There
is no evidence other than some writings which need not be valid, to support
your charge. Some even call the cross a tree.
All of the scripture you quoted contradicts your final assertion,
"It was written on a board and nailed to the crossbeam above Jesus' head
giving rise to the erroneous notion that He was hung on a 'cross'."
read it again... "And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. ..."
Not the crossbeam..
Its strange to me that you an antiCatholic antichrist, antiGod self
confessed athiest suddenly leaps to the defence of a jew loving, jew supporting
antiCatholic Pope.. ????Or is it? not so strange after all.
Nice to know you are reading all our religious stuff.. Hope for you
abounds. You should revisit your catechism, before these protties get you...
lol....
In geocentrism's name,
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Deema
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 3:42 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
Peter C
As I understand it, the Romans crucified people by attaching the
condemned to a cross beam which was then placed on top of a pole. That was all
that was needed, and it cost less. If they wanted the condemned to linger, a
seat and/or footrest was sometimes provided.
When Jesus was crucified, Pilate "... wrote a title and put it on the
cross ... "
19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing
was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus
was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek,
and Latin.
19:21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The
King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
19:22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
(King James Bible, John)
Today this is given as INRI -- the Latin initialism for
IESVS·NAZARENVS·REX·IVDÆORVM (Jesus Nazarenus, rex Judæorum). It was written on
a board and nailed to the crossbeam above Jesus' head giving rise to the
erroneous notion that He was hung on a 'cross'.
Paul D
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From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, 8 January, 2009 5:18:18 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: What went wrong to cause it.
I read that when the Jews where kicked out of Spain, the Sanhedrin told
Jews to convert to Catholisism, in order to subvert it.
The current Pope looks rather Jewish with his skull cap, ephod for the 12
tribes of Israel, and notice that his crucifix is now a blatent " T ", not even
pretening to be a cross but the sacred T of the Sun God Tammuz who the Jewish
Women used to weep over.
Pete Charlton
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