[geocentrism] Uranus

  • From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:41:24 -0800 (PST)

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I don=92t need your permission for the number of words I use=85. See attach=
ed diagram=85If you don=92t get this=85I don=92t care what you "conclude"=
=85understand that!=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Paul De=
ema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Sunday=
, December 21, 2008 11:18:13 AM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0A=0A=
=0AAllen D=0A=0AIn ten words or less=A0Allen.=0A=0ANot an explanation -- ju=
st "Please PLEASE PLEASE -- where is the common point to which Uranus=A0is =
radially and progressively orienting itself."=0A=0AIf you won't answer I'll=
 have to conclude that you're=A0just blowing smoke.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al=
lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Sunday, 21=
 December, 2008 5:14:21 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APhil,=0A=
"Rigid body" is not necessary to be part of the definition...and why you th=
ink it must be just demonstrates that you do not understand at all =85.ther=
e are plenty of bodies that are not ridged that can perform progressive rad=
ial orientations to a common point=85.that definition of rotation=A0defines=
 it even=A0 for non rigid bodies as well as in 2d space=0A=0APaul,I address=
ed what the common point is for each rotation I was extremely specific for =
both a planetary rotation as well as well as a orbital rotation. I even ins=
inuated that you were stupid and offered to apologies if you would just get=
 someone to explain to me what part of my answer did not answer your questi=
on=85.i have no doubt that you do not like the answers IM giving but I go t=
o a lot of trouble to explain why, but then you only accuse me of obfuscati=
ng and or avoiding and or not answering .=85I=92m not going to repeat it al=
l here again =85you want to play the village idiot that is your privilege =
=85.=0AIf you don=92t understand my definition then what are you objecting =
to? Every time someone attempts to explain to you two what that definition =
means and or how it is applicable to the everyday world. you just make more=
 empty assertions and fail to address the arguments and then turn right aro=
und and claim you don=92t understand=85..no wonder!?=0A=0AWe have arrived a=
t a point in this conversation where your accusations about my arguments ar=
e the and only essence to any and all of your arguments=85you want to play =
stupid that is your problem=85.I will proceed with or without you=85.If you=
 cannot understand enough of what I have given you to grasps even a morsel =
so as to address it =85 then by all means I=92m more then willing to let yo=
u wallow ignorance and play the dancing fool=85=A0=0A=0A--- On Sun, 12/21/0=
8, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <allend=
aves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: S=
unday, December 21, 2008, 8:34 AM=0A=0A=0AThen as i said maybe you need you=
 to get someone else to make your case and or help you out "you poor thing"=
... ..funny you and your ilk seem to be the only ones that are quite so clu=
eless as you make yourself out to be........but then again i wonder if it i=
s just a act or you really are not able to discuss this issue......either w=
ay it is your problem play stupid or be stupid if you want to=85..I=92m not=
 so sure there is much if any difference at this point=85=85... I will cont=
inue with or without you....but i will not entertain any more stupidity...a=
nd if you cant get it then get Regner to explain it for you. He did not see=
m to have quite the difficulty with that defintion or its application as I =
am using it here...=0A=0A--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@yahoo=
.co.uk> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [g=
eocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Saturday, De=
cember 20, 2008, 11:14 PM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AIf your drawings and explana=
tions were clear, I would have no need of further clarification.=0A=0AI rem=
ind you again of the origin of the name of this thread -- 'Uranus'. I asked=
=A0you to identify the 'common point' to which Uranus was radially and prog=
ressively orienting itself. In the centre of the Sun would have been an und=
erstandable answer; in the centre of Uranus would have been an understandab=
le answer; in the centre of the galaxy would have been an understandable an=
swer -- all incorrect of course,=A0 but the answer would have been comprehe=
nsible. It would have been the jumping off point to refine just where this =
elusive point is located.=0A=0AYou consistently avoid any such answer, usua=
lly intimating that I lack the intellect and the honesty to " ... deal with=
 what I have already given you ..." Instead we get your usual verbose, tang=
ential word storm.=0A=0AI am trying to understand your definition. Please -=
- in not more than ten words -- where is the common point to which Uranus=
=A0is radially and progressively orienting itself.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al=
lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Saturday, =
20 December, 2008 10:25:09 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul,=
 =0A=A0 =0AOne the one hand you proclaime it is =93too much/too little=A0--=
 too late=94 .=85while in the same post challenging me to answer you ....pr=
actically daring me not to answer you on pains of not being able to be cohe=
rent=85...Then......Whenever I answer you, then you accuse me of browbeatin=
g and obfuscation.........If I do not answer you, then you accuse me of avo=
iding the issue!? =85.. You claim to extend your hand and that I keep bitin=
g, =A0when the reality Paul is just the opposite=85I answer and address and=
 offer, it is you who keep biting the hand that feeds=85=85.. =0A=A0 =0AIf =
you are really interested then deal with what I have already given you=85=
=85.If you don=92t understand the words =93A Progressive radial orientation=
 to a common point=94 as it related to the numerous examples I have already=
 provided and the applications to the real world and the experiments we hav=
e discussed..... then I don=92t think anyone can help you in your=A0tireles=
s and charitable labor of =A0perseverance..=85 =0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A-=
-- On Sat, 12/20/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: A=
llen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@freel=
ists.org=0ADate: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 10:39 AM=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On=
 Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul =
Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: ge=
ocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:57 AM=0A=0A=
=0AAllen D=0A=0AIt's too little -- or perhaps that should be too much -- to=
o late.=0A=0AHow many times have I held my hand out to you, and how many ti=
mes did you bite it?=A0=0A=0AHere's a test. Try to explain to me what is me=
ant by "Rotation -- a progressive radial orientation to a common point," in=
 not less than three paragraphs and not more than 100 words, with no spelli=
ng errors and correctly punctuated. If you can do that, then you'll=A0get s=
ome idea of what it takes to communicate rather than to brow-beat and=A0to =
demonstrate consideration for your fellow man.=0A=0AThe preceeding three pa=
ragraphs contain 99 words.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________=
__________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=
=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Friday, 19 December, 2008 4:17:39 =
PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0ACommon guys =85I can=92t not bel=
ieve it is this hard for you=85unless it is willful=85. =0A=A0 =0AI underst=
and your arguments...all you do is=A0keep coming at this issue with two bas=
ic arguments=85 =0A=A0 =0A1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even poss=
ible in reality=A0because "pure=A0geometry is "pure imagination"....=A0but =
I addressed it as "pure geometry"=A0in Parent =931=94=A0 & the plate diagra=
ms which leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable=
 and objectively meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as =
well as=A0the fact that real rotation has real requirements not just imagin=
ary =93pure geometry=94=85 =0A=A0 =0AOr =0A=A0 =0A2. Rotation due to a forc=
e=85which has more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept=
=85.I address this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams... =
=0A=A0 =0A=A0You canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches ta=
king what you like and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with=
 it...when it suits you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not=A0 th=
e cherry picking you attempt in your reasoning.... =0A=A0 =0AIn our experim=
ent=85.whether or not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if =A0it =
requires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the moto=
r or from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion unt=
il such a force is produced from either of those tow possibilities to overc=
ome what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 =A0now if the c=
ondition that produces a sync is one where the resistance is greater then a=
ny force to cause it to rotate then how on earth can you suggest that it is=
 in rotational motion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes. Namely wha=
t you are putting forward is that while in one motor is not =A0able to rota=
te due to some resistance the other motor overcome that resistance and is a=
lso equally in sync=85.you cannot have one motor in a forced rotational mot=
ion =A0while the other motor is without force and by definition prevented f=
rom =A0rotation and claim those are the two conditions are
 one and the same=85you cannot have a motion equivalent to a non motion wrt=
 the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=85.. =A0=A0if before the orbi=
t begins one motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prev=
ented from rotation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the =
one to 100rpm and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented =
from rotation=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized mot=
or to the same state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotat=
ion before we began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor=
 is one of no rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then the=
re is not logical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical =
sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity a=
s well as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a for=
ce and we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just
 because you have a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other moto=
r does not mean it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissua=
nce to that force=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for =
forces comes from the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, a=
gain if the force is not greater then the resistance to that force there wi=
ll still be no rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist=
 during.=A0 The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mot=
or is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient =A0force and =
as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that same condition i=
n order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the=
 other cannot either, if they are doing the same things=85. If one motor ha=
s insufficient force to cause a rotation then the other motor must also hav=
e insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwise there is no way
 the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital plate. There is sim=
ply no logical way to claim a rotation when =A0your arguments =0A1. =93 pur=
e geometry=94 does not describe reality and =0A2.=A0 There is no demonstata=
ble force sufficient to overcome resistance and cause motion =0A=A0=0A=0A--=
- On Fri, 12/19/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AIf there=
 is no motion before and no motion after the orbit then what is the claim o=
f rotation based on during the orbit=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep ref=
erring to is the orbit. There is no second motion except in your head parti=
cularly since there is no way to define it except in imagination that is ab=
sent of facts in reality..=A0 The only logical claim is that there is a pre=
vention of rotation in our experiment not a rotation...subsequently that is=
 the only demonstratable claim we can make for the moon.....something is pr=
eventing it from rotation not causing it to rotate....you cannot assume the=
 very thing you are trying to ascertain as evidence for itself....=0AFrom: =
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@free=
lists.org=0ADate: Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:44 AM=0A=0A=0ACommon guys =
=85I can=92t not believe it is this hard for you=85unless it is willful=85.=
 =0A=A0 =0AAll you do is=A0keep coming at this with two basic arguments=85 =
=0A=A0 =0A1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in reality=
=A0because "pure=A0geometry is "pure imagination"....=A0but I addressed it =
as "pure geometry"=A0in Parent =931=94=A0 & the plate diagrams which leads =
to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable and objectivel=
y meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as well as=A0the f=
act that real rotation has real requirements not just imaginary =93pure geo=
metry=94=85 =0A=A0 =0AOr =0A=A0 =0A2. Rotation due to a force=85which has m=
ore to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept=85.I address th=
is approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams... =0A=A0 =0A=A0You =
canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches taking what you lik=
e and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with it...when it sui=
ts you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not=A0 the cherry picking =
you attempt in your reasoning.... =0A=A0 =0AIn our experiment=85.whether or=
 not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if =A0it requires just has=
 .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the motor or from centrif=
ugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion until such a force i=
s produced from either of those tow possibilities to overcome what is by de=
finition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 =A0now if the condition that pro=
duces a sync is one where the resistance is greater then any force to cause=
 it to rotate then how on earth can you suggest that it is in rotational mo=
tion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes. Namely what you are putting=
 forward is that while in one motor is not =A0able to rotate due to some re=
sistance the other motor overcome that resistance and is also equally in sy=
nc=85.you cannot have one motor in a forced rotational motion =A0while the =
other motor is without force and by definition prevented from =A0rotation a=
nd claim those are the two conditions are
 one and the same=85you cannot have a motion equivalent to a non motion wrt=
 the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=85.. =A0=A0if before the orbi=
t begins one motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prev=
ented from rotation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the =
one to 100rpm and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented =
from rotation=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized mot=
or to the same state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotat=
ion before we began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor=
 is one of no rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then the=
re is not logical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical =
sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity a=
s well as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a for=
ce and we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just
 because you have a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other moto=
r does not mean it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissua=
nce to that force=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for =
forces comes from the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, a=
gain if the force is not greater then the resistance to that force there wi=
ll still be no rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist=
 during.=A0 The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mot=
or is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient =A0force and =
as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that same condition i=
n order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the=
 other cannot either, if they are doing the same things=85. If one motor ha=
s insufficient force to cause a rotation then the other motor must also hav=
e insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwise there is no way
 the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital plate. There is sim=
ply no logical way to claim a rotation when =A0your arguments =0A1. =93 pur=
e geometry=94 does not describe reality and =0A2.=A0 There is no demonstata=
ble force sufficient to overcome resistance and cause motion =0A=A0--- On T=
hu, 12/18/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AIf there =
is no motion before and no motion after the orbit then what is the claim of=
 rotation based on during the orbit=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep refe=
rring to is the orbit. There is no second motion except in your head partic=
ularly since there is no way to define it except in imagination that is abs=
ent of facts in reality..=A0 The only logical claim is that there is a prev=
ention of rotation in our experiment not a rotation...subsequently that is =
the only demonstratable claim we can make for the moon.....something is pre=
venting it from rotation not causing it to rotate....you cannot assume the =
very thing you are trying to ascertain as evidence for itself.... =0A=A0 =
=0A=A0 =0AFrom: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocent=
rism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December=
 18, 2008, 10:59 PM=0A=0A=0AIf you don=92t understand what I am saying plea=
se get someone who can actually debate this issue with me=85.=A0=A0Allen=0A=
=A0=0A=A0=0APerhaps someone with autism...=A0 I saw an interesting experien=
ce of autistic children experiencing new life with dolphins..=A0 They taugh=
t thes kids how to relate affectionately with their parents.. I thought tha=
t marvellous..=A0 =0A=A0=0AI saw sea lions today acting like the lovliest a=
nd most loving of dogs. It was claimed that they were endangered with only =
2 or 3 thousand left.. Thats in keeping with the consummation I suppose. =
=0A=A0=0APhilip. =0A=A0  =0A________________________________=0AStay connect=
ed to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look.  =0A__=
______________________________=0AStay connected to the people that matter m=
ost with a smarter inbox. Take a look.  =0A________________________________=
=0AStay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take=
 a look.
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
4pt"><DIV><FONT size=3D2>=0A<P>I don=92t need your permission for the numbe=
r of words I use=85. See attached diagram=85If you don=92t get this=85I don=
=92t care what you "conclude"=85understand that!</P></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DI=
V style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t=
imes, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><=
B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Paul Deema &lt;paul_de=
ema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SP=
AN></B> Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:18:13 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEI=
GHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<D=
IV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A=
<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>In ten words or less&nbsp;Allen=
.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Not an explanation -- just "Please PLEAS=
E <STRONG>PLEASE</STRONG> -- <EM>where</EM> is the common point to which Ur=
anus&nbsp;is radially and progressively orienting itself."</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nb=
sp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>If you won't answer I'll have to conclude that you're&nbsp=
;just blowing smoke.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, =
helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FON=
T-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;allendaves=
@allendaves.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SP=
AN></B> Sunday, 21 December, 2008 5:14:21 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIG=
HT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE =
cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=
=3Dtop><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>Phil,</DIV>=0A<DIV>"Rigid body=
" is not necessary to be part of the definition...and why you think it must=
 be just demonstrates that you do not understand at all =85.there are plent=
y of bodies that are not ridged that can perform progressive radial orienta=
tions to a common point=85.that definition of rotation&nbsp;defines it even=
&nbsp; for non rigid bodies as well as in 2d space</DIV></FONT>=0A<DIV>&nbs=
p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Paul,</DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>I addresse=
d what the common point is for each rotation I was extremely specific for b=
oth a planetary rotation as well as well as a orbital rotation. I even insi=
nuated that you were stupid and offered to apologies if you would just get =
someone to explain to me what part of my answer did not answer your questio=
n=85.i have no doubt that you do not like the answers IM giving but I go to=
 a lot of trouble to explain why, but then you only accuse me of obfuscatin=
g and or avoiding and or not answering .=85I=92m not going to repeat it all=
 here again =85you want to play the village idiot that is your privilege =
=85.</DIV>=0A<DIV></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>If you don=92t understa=
nd my definition then what are you objecting to? Every time someone attempt=
s to explain to you two what that definition means and or how it is applica=
ble to the everyday world. you just make more empty assertions and fail to =
address the arguments and then turn right around and claim you don=92t unde=
rstand=85..no wonder!?</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>We have arrived at =
a point in this conversation where your accusations about my arguments are =
the and only essence to any and all of your arguments=85you want to play st=
upid that is your problem=85.I will proceed with or without you=85.If you c=
annot understand enough of what I have given you to grasps even a morsel so=
 as to address it =85 then by all means I=92m more then willing to let you =
wallow ignorance and play the dancing fool=85</DIV></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B=
>Sun, 12/21/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<=
BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT=
: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<=
BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Sunday, Decemb=
er 21, 2008, 8:34 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv2048363009>=0A<TABLE cellSpacin=
g=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop><FONT=
 size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>Then as i said maybe you need you to get s=
omeone else to make your case and or help you out "you poor thing"... ..fun=
ny you and your ilk seem to be the only ones that are quite so clueless as =
you make yourself out to be........but then again i wonder if it is just a =
act or you really are not able to discuss this issue......either way it is =
your problem play stupid or be stupid if you want to=85..I=92m not so sure =
there is much if any difference at this point=85=85... I will continue with=
 or without you....but i will not entertain any more stupidity...and if you=
 cant get it then get Regner to explain it for you. He did not seem to have=
 quite the difficulty with that defintion or its application as I am using =
it here...</DIV></FONT></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <=
I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"=
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"=
>From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] =
Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20,=
 2008, 11:14 PM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1356393172>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css=
><!--#yiv2048363009 #yiv1356393172 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV s=
tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV=
></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>If your drawings and explanations w=
ere clear, I would have no need of further clarification.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbs=
p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>I remind you again of the origin of the name of this thread=
 -- 'Uranus'. I asked&nbsp;you to identify the 'common point' to which Uran=
us was radially and progressively orienting itself. In the centre of the Su=
n would have been an understandable answer; in the centre of Uranus would h=
ave been an understandable answer; in the centre of the galaxy would have b=
een an understandable answer -- all incorrect of course,&nbsp; but the answ=
er would have been comprehensible. It would have been the jumping off point=
 to refine just where this elusive point is located.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</D=
IV>=0A<DIV>You consistently avoid any such answer, usually intimating that =
I lack the intellect and the honesty to " ... deal with what I have already=
 given you ..." Instead we get your usual verbose, tangential word storm.</=
DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>I am trying to understand your definition. =
Please -- in not more than ten words -- <EM>where</EM> is the common point =
to which Uranus&nbsp;is radially and progressively orienting itself.</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Pau=
l D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FA=
MILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; F=
ONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma si=
ze=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN>=
</B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR=
><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, 20 Decembe=
r, 2008 10:25:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN>=
</B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddi=
ng=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>P=
aul, </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT siz=
e=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New=
 Roman">One the one hand you proclaime it is =93</FONT><SPAN style=3D"FONT-=
FAMILY: Arial">too much/too little&nbsp;-- too late=94 .</SPAN><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman">=85while in the same post challenging me to answer you=
 ....practically daring me not to answer you on pains of not being able to =
be coherent=85...Then......Whenever I answer you, then you accuse me of bro=
wbeating and obfuscation.........If I do not answer you, then you accuse me=
 of avoiding the issue!? =85.. You claim to extend your hand and that I kee=
p biting, <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>when the reality Paul is just the opposite=85I=
 answer and address and offer, it is you who keep biting the hand that feed=
s=85=85..</FONT></FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0p=
t">&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT size=3D3>If you are really interested then deal =
with what I have already given you=85=85.If you don=92t understand the word=
s =93A Progressive radial orientation to a common point=94 as it related to=
 the numerous examples I have already provided and the applications to the =
real world and the experiments we have discussed..... then I don=92t think =
anyone can help you in your&nbsp;tireless and charitable labor of <SPAN>&nb=
sp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">p=
erseverance</SPAN><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">..=85</FONT></FONT> =0A<DI=
V><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"=
Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Allen Daves <I>&l=
t;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDIN=
G-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:=
 Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocent=
rism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 10:39 AM<BR><BR>=
=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1985976936>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=
=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"=
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;pau=
l_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-L=
EFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Pa=
ul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranu=
s<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:=
57 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv987736098>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv20=
48363009 #yiv1356393172 #yiv1985976936 #yiv987736098 DIV {margin:0px;}--></=
STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, s=
ans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>It's too little -=
- or perhaps that should be too much -- too late.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>How many times have I held my hand out to you, and how many times d=
id you bite it?&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Here's a test. Try t=
o explain to me what is meant by "Rotation -- a progressive radial orientat=
ion to a common point," in not less than three paragraphs and not more than=
 100 words, with no spelling errors and correctly punctuated. If you can do=
 that, then you'll&nbsp;get some idea of what it takes to communicate rathe=
r than to brow-beat and&nbsp;to demonstrate consideration for your fellow m=
an.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>The preceeding three paragraphs contai=
n 99 words.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica=
, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"F=
ONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT=
 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: b=
old">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;allendaves@allendaves=
.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism=
@freelists.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Fri=
day, 19 December, 2008 4:17:39 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">S=
ubject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=
=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Time=
s New Roman" size=3D3>Common guys =85I can=92t not believe it is this hard =
for you=85unless it is willful=85.</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle=
 style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbs=
p;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><=
FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I understand your arguments...all yo=
u do is&nbsp;keep coming at this issue with two basic arguments=85</FONT> =
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMidd=
le style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1.=
 "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in reality&nbsp;because=
 "pure&nbsp;geometry is "pure imagination"....&nbsp;but I addressed it as "=
pure geometry"&nbsp;in Parent =931=94&nbsp; &amp; the plate diagrams which =
leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable and obje=
ctively meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as well as&n=
bsp;the fact that real rotation has real requirements not just imaginary =
=93pure geometry=94=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MA=
RGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=
=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Or</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle s=
tyle=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;=
</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FO=
NT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2. Rotation due to a force=85which has=
 more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept=85.I address =
this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams...</FONT> =0A<P cl=
ass=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times=
 New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=
=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;You =
canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches taking what you lik=
e and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with it...when it sui=
ts you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not&nbsp; the cherry picki=
ng you attempt in your reasoning....</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMidd=
le style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></=
FONT>&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"=
><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In our experiment=85.whether or no=
t the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>it requ=
ires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the motor or=
 from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion until s=
uch a force is produced from either of those tow possibilities to overcome =
what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>=
now if the condition that produces a sync is one where the resistance is gr=
eater then any force to cause it to rotate then how on earth can you sugges=
t that it is in rotational motion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes=
. Namely what you are putting forward is that while in one motor is not <SP=
AN>&nbsp;</SPAN>able to rotate due to some resistance the other motor overc=
ome that resistance and is also equally in sync=85.you cannot have one moto=
r in a forced
 rotational motion <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>while the other motor is without forc=
e and by definition prevented from <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>rotation and claim th=
ose are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion =
equivalent to a non motion wrt the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=
=85.. <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>if before the orbit begins one =
motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prevented from ro=
tation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the one to 100rpm=
 and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation=
=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized motor to the sam=
e state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation before we=
 began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor is one of no=
 rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then there is not log=
ical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical sense
 but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity as wel=
l as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a force an=
d we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you ha=
ve a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other motor does not mean=
 it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissuance to that for=
ce=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for forces comes fr=
om the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, again if the for=
ce is not greater then the resistance to that force there will still be no =
rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist during.<SPAN>&=
nbsp; </SPAN>The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mo=
tor is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient <SPAN>&nbsp;=
</SPAN>force and as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that=
 same condition in order to manifest the same effects=85If the one
 has not rotation then the other cannot either, if they are doing the same =
things=85. If one motor has insufficient force to cause a rotation then the=
 other motor must also have insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwi=
se there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital p=
late. There is simply no logical way to claim a rotation when <SPAN>&nbsp;<=
/SPAN>your arguments </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARG=
IN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1. =93 pure geomet=
ry=94 does not describe reality and </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddl=
e style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2.<=
SPAN>&nbsp; There is no demonstatable </SPAN>force sufficient to overcome r=
esistance and cause motion </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=
=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FO=
NT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirs=
t style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">If there is no motion before and no motion =
after the orbit then what is the claim of rotation based on during the orbi=
t=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep referring to is the orbit. There is no=
 second motion except in your head particularly since there is no way to de=
fine it except in imagination that is absent of facts in reality..&nbsp; Th=
e only logical claim is that there is a prevention of rotation in our exper=
iment not a rotation...subsequently that is the only demonstratable claim w=
e can make for the moon.....something is preventing it from rotation not ca=
using it to rotate....you cannot assume the very thing you are trying to as=
certain as evidence for itself....</FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 12/19/08, A=
llen Daves <I>&lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE=
 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) =
2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: Uranu=
s<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:44=
 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv2014330894>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=
=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorma=
lCxSpFirst style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" siz=
e=3D3>Common guys =85I can=92t not believe it is this hard for you=85unless=
 it is willful=85.</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN=
: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P =
class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Tim=
es New Roman" size=3D3>All you do is&nbsp;keep coming at this with two basi=
c arguments=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0i=
n 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P clas=
s=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times N=
ew Roman" size=3D3>1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in=
 reality&nbsp;because "pure&nbsp;geometry is "pure imagination"....&nbsp;bu=
t I addressed it as "pure geometry"&nbsp;in Parent =931=94&nbsp; &amp; the =
plate diagrams which leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any =
quantifiable and objectively meaningful definition applicable in the real w=
orld.....as well as&nbsp;the fact that real rotation has real requirements =
not just imaginary =93pure geometry=94=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxS=
pMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=
=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0=
in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Or</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMso=
NormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roma=
n" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN=
: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2. Rotation due to a=
 force=85which has more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical con=
cept=85.I address this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams.=
..</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><=
FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNorma=
lCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" si=
ze=3D3>&nbsp;You canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches ta=
king what you like and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with=
 it...when it suits you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not&nbsp;=
 the cherry picking you attempt in your reasoning....</FONT> =0A<P class=3D=
MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New R=
oman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MAR=
GIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In our experiment=
=85.whether or not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if <SPAN>&nb=
sp;</SPAN>it requires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energi=
zing the motor or from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is =
no motion until such a force is produced from either of those tow possibili=
ties to overcome what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 <S=
PAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>now if the condition that produces a sync is one where the=
 resistance is greater then any force to cause it to rotate then how on ear=
th can you suggest that it is in rotational motion. It leads to contradicti=
ons and paradoxes. Namely what you are putting forward is that while in one=
 motor is not <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>able to rotate due to some resistance the =
other motor overcome that resistance and is also equally in sync=85.you can=
not have one motor in a forced
 rotational motion <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>while the other motor is without forc=
e and by definition prevented from <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>rotation and claim th=
ose are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion =
equivalent to a non motion wrt the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=
=85.. <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>if before the orbit begins one =
motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prevented from ro=
tation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the one to 100rpm=
 and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation=
=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized motor to the sam=
e state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation before we=
 began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor is one of no=
 rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then there is not log=
ical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical sense
 but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity as wel=
l as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a force an=
d we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you ha=
ve a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other motor does not mean=
 it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissuance to that for=
ce=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for forces comes fr=
om the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, again if the for=
ce is not greater then the resistance to that force there will still be no =
rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist during.<SPAN>&=
nbsp; </SPAN>The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mo=
tor is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient <SPAN>&nbsp;=
</SPAN>force and as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that=
 same condition in order to manifest the same effects=85If the one
 has not rotation then the other cannot either, if they are doing the same =
things=85. If one motor has insufficient force to cause a rotation then the=
 other motor must also have insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwi=
se there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital p=
late. There is simply no logical way to claim a rotation when <SPAN>&nbsp;<=
/SPAN>your arguments </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARG=
IN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1. =93 pure geomet=
ry=94 does not describe reality and </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddl=
e style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2.<=
SPAN>&nbsp; There is no demonstatable </SPAN>force sufficient to overcome r=
esistance and cause motion </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=
=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FO=
NT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirs=
t style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">If there is no motion before and no motion =
after the orbit then what is the claim of rotation based on during the orbi=
t=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep referring to is the orbit. There is no=
 second motion except in your head particularly since there is no way to de=
fine it except in imagination that is absent of facts in reality..&nbsp; Th=
e only logical claim is that there is a prevention of rotation in our exper=
iment not a rotation...subsequently that is the only demonstratable claim w=
e can make for the moon.....something is preventing it from rotation not ca=
using it to rotate....you cannot assume the very thing you are trying to as=
certain as evidence for itself.... =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style=
=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style=3D"M=
ARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">&nbsp; =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGI=
N: 0in 0in 0pt"></FONT>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/08, philip madsen <I>&lt;pma150=
27@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEF=
T: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: phil=
ip madsen &lt;pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Ura=
nus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, =
10:59 PM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1032697110>=0A<STYLE></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV><FO=
NT face=3DArial>If you don=92t understand what I am saying please get someo=
ne who can actually debate this issue with me=85.&nbsp;<SPAN>&nbsp;Allen</S=
PAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT f=
ace=3DArial><SPAN>Perhaps someone with autism...&nbsp; I saw an interesting=
 experience of autistic children experiencing new life with dolphins..&nbsp=
; They taught thes kids how to relate affectionately with their parents.. I=
 thought that marvellous..&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DA=
rial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN>I saw=
 sea lions today acting like the lovliest and most loving of dogs. It was c=
laimed that they were endangered with only 2 or 3 thousand left.. Thats in =
keeping with the consummation I suppose. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SP=
AN>Philip. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D5><FONT face=3DArial><S=
PAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY><=
/TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>=
=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStay connected to the people that matter most with a sma=
rter inbox. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/galaxy/mail/tagline2/*http://=
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