MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-673097792-1229884884=:14438" --0-673097792-1229884884=:14438 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-78544911-1229884884=:14438" --0-78544911-1229884884=:14438 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don=92t need your permission for the number of words I use=85. See attach= ed diagram=85If you don=92t get this=85I don=92t care what you "conclude"= =85understand that!=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Forwarded Message ----=0AFrom: Paul De= ema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Sunday= , December 21, 2008 11:18:13 AM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0A=0A= =0AAllen D=0A=0AIn ten words or less=A0Allen.=0A=0ANot an explanation -- ju= st "Please PLEASE PLEASE -- where is the common point to which Uranus=A0is = radially and progressively orienting itself."=0A=0AIf you won't answer I'll= have to conclude that you're=A0just blowing smoke.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al= lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Sunday, 21= December, 2008 5:14:21 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APhil,=0A= "Rigid body" is not necessary to be part of the definition...and why you th= ink it must be just demonstrates that you do not understand at all =85.ther= e are plenty of bodies that are not ridged that can perform progressive rad= ial orientations to a common point=85.that definition of rotation=A0defines= it even=A0 for non rigid bodies as well as in 2d space=0A=0APaul,I address= ed what the common point is for each rotation I was extremely specific for = both a planetary rotation as well as well as a orbital rotation. I even ins= inuated that you were stupid and offered to apologies if you would just get= someone to explain to me what part of my answer did not answer your questi= on=85.i have no doubt that you do not like the answers IM giving but I go t= o a lot of trouble to explain why, but then you only accuse me of obfuscati= ng and or avoiding and or not answering .=85I=92m not going to repeat it al= l here again =85you want to play the village idiot that is your privilege = =85.=0AIf you don=92t understand my definition then what are you objecting = to? Every time someone attempts to explain to you two what that definition = means and or how it is applicable to the everyday world. you just make more= empty assertions and fail to address the arguments and then turn right aro= und and claim you don=92t understand=85..no wonder!?=0A=0AWe have arrived a= t a point in this conversation where your accusations about my arguments ar= e the and only essence to any and all of your arguments=85you want to play = stupid that is your problem=85.I will proceed with or without you=85.If you= cannot understand enough of what I have given you to grasps even a morsel = so as to address it =85 then by all means I=92m more then willing to let yo= u wallow ignorance and play the dancing fool=85=A0=0A=0A--- On Sun, 12/21/0= 8, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <allend= aves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: S= unday, December 21, 2008, 8:34 AM=0A=0A=0AThen as i said maybe you need you= to get someone else to make your case and or help you out "you poor thing"= ... ..funny you and your ilk seem to be the only ones that are quite so clu= eless as you make yourself out to be........but then again i wonder if it i= s just a act or you really are not able to discuss this issue......either w= ay it is your problem play stupid or be stupid if you want to=85..I=92m not= so sure there is much if any difference at this point=85=85... I will cont= inue with or without you....but i will not entertain any more stupidity...a= nd if you cant get it then get Regner to explain it for you. He did not see= m to have quite the difficulty with that defintion or its application as I = am using it here...=0A=0A--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@yahoo= .co.uk> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [g= eocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Saturday, De= cember 20, 2008, 11:14 PM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AIf your drawings and explana= tions were clear, I would have no need of further clarification.=0A=0AI rem= ind you again of the origin of the name of this thread -- 'Uranus'. I asked= =A0you to identify the 'common point' to which Uranus was radially and prog= ressively orienting itself. In the centre of the Sun would have been an und= erstandable answer; in the centre of Uranus would have been an understandab= le answer; in the centre of the galaxy would have been an understandable an= swer -- all incorrect of course,=A0 but the answer would have been comprehe= nsible. It would have been the jumping off point to refine just where this = elusive point is located.=0A=0AYou consistently avoid any such answer, usua= lly intimating that I lack the intellect and the honesty to " ... deal with= what I have already given you ..." Instead we get your usual verbose, tang= ential word storm.=0A=0AI am trying to understand your definition. Please -= - in not more than ten words -- where is the common point to which Uranus= =A0is radially and progressively orienting itself.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al= lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Saturday, = 20 December, 2008 10:25:09 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul,= =0A=A0 =0AOne the one hand you proclaime it is =93too much/too little=A0--= too late=94 .=85while in the same post challenging me to answer you ....pr= actically daring me not to answer you on pains of not being able to be cohe= rent=85...Then......Whenever I answer you, then you accuse me of browbeatin= g and obfuscation.........If I do not answer you, then you accuse me of avo= iding the issue!? =85.. You claim to extend your hand and that I keep bitin= g, =A0when the reality Paul is just the opposite=85I answer and address and= offer, it is you who keep biting the hand that feeds=85=85.. =0A=A0 =0AIf = you are really interested then deal with what I have already given you=85= =85.If you don=92t understand the words =93A Progressive radial orientation= to a common point=94 as it related to the numerous examples I have already= provided and the applications to the real world and the experiments we hav= e discussed..... then I don=92t think anyone can help you in your=A0tireles= s and charitable labor of =A0perseverance..=85 =0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A-= -- On Sat, 12/20/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: A= llen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@freel= ists.org=0ADate: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 10:39 AM=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On= Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul = Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: ge= ocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:57 AM=0A=0A= =0AAllen D=0A=0AIt's too little -- or perhaps that should be too much -- to= o late.=0A=0AHow many times have I held my hand out to you, and how many ti= mes did you bite it?=A0=0A=0AHere's a test. Try to explain to me what is me= ant by "Rotation -- a progressive radial orientation to a common point," in= not less than three paragraphs and not more than 100 words, with no spelli= ng errors and correctly punctuated. If you can do that, then you'll=A0get s= ome idea of what it takes to communicate rather than to brow-beat and=A0to = demonstrate consideration for your fellow man.=0A=0AThe preceeding three pa= ragraphs contain 99 words.=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________= __________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>= =0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Friday, 19 December, 2008 4:17:39 = PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0ACommon guys =85I can=92t not bel= ieve it is this hard for you=85unless it is willful=85. =0A=A0 =0AI underst= and your arguments...all you do is=A0keep coming at this issue with two bas= ic arguments=85 =0A=A0 =0A1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even poss= ible in reality=A0because "pure=A0geometry is "pure imagination"....=A0but = I addressed it as "pure geometry"=A0in Parent =931=94=A0 & the plate diagra= ms which leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable= and objectively meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as = well as=A0the fact that real rotation has real requirements not just imagin= ary =93pure geometry=94=85 =0A=A0 =0AOr =0A=A0 =0A2. Rotation due to a forc= e=85which has more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept= =85.I address this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams... = =0A=A0 =0A=A0You canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches ta= king what you like and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with= it...when it suits you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not=A0 th= e cherry picking you attempt in your reasoning.... =0A=A0 =0AIn our experim= ent=85.whether or not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if =A0it = requires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the moto= r or from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion unt= il such a force is produced from either of those tow possibilities to overc= ome what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 =A0now if the c= ondition that produces a sync is one where the resistance is greater then a= ny force to cause it to rotate then how on earth can you suggest that it is= in rotational motion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes. Namely wha= t you are putting forward is that while in one motor is not =A0able to rota= te due to some resistance the other motor overcome that resistance and is a= lso equally in sync=85.you cannot have one motor in a forced rotational mot= ion =A0while the other motor is without force and by definition prevented f= rom =A0rotation and claim those are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion equivalent to a non motion wrt= the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=85.. =A0=A0if before the orbi= t begins one motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prev= ented from rotation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the = one to 100rpm and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented = from rotation=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized mot= or to the same state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotat= ion before we began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor= is one of no rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then the= re is not logical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical = sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity a= s well as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a for= ce and we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you have a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other moto= r does not mean it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissua= nce to that force=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for = forces comes from the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, a= gain if the force is not greater then the resistance to that force there wi= ll still be no rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist= during.=A0 The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mot= or is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient =A0force and = as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that same condition i= n order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the= other cannot either, if they are doing the same things=85. If one motor ha= s insufficient force to cause a rotation then the other motor must also hav= e insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwise there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital plate. There is sim= ply no logical way to claim a rotation when =A0your arguments =0A1. =93 pur= e geometry=94 does not describe reality and =0A2.=A0 There is no demonstata= ble force sufficient to overcome resistance and cause motion =0A=A0=0A=0A--= - On Fri, 12/19/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AIf there= is no motion before and no motion after the orbit then what is the claim o= f rotation based on during the orbit=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep ref= erring to is the orbit. There is no second motion except in your head parti= cularly since there is no way to define it except in imagination that is ab= sent of facts in reality..=A0 The only logical claim is that there is a pre= vention of rotation in our experiment not a rotation...subsequently that is= the only demonstratable claim we can make for the moon.....something is pr= eventing it from rotation not causing it to rotate....you cannot assume the= very thing you are trying to ascertain as evidence for itself....=0AFrom: = Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@free= lists.org=0ADate: Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:44 AM=0A=0A=0ACommon guys = =85I can=92t not believe it is this hard for you=85unless it is willful=85.= =0A=A0 =0AAll you do is=A0keep coming at this with two basic arguments=85 = =0A=A0 =0A1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in reality= =A0because "pure=A0geometry is "pure imagination"....=A0but I addressed it = as "pure geometry"=A0in Parent =931=94=A0 & the plate diagrams which leads = to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable and objectivel= y meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as well as=A0the f= act that real rotation has real requirements not just imaginary =93pure geo= metry=94=85 =0A=A0 =0AOr =0A=A0 =0A2. Rotation due to a force=85which has m= ore to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept=85.I address th= is approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams... =0A=A0 =0A=A0You = canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches taking what you lik= e and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with it...when it sui= ts you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not=A0 the cherry picking = you attempt in your reasoning.... =0A=A0 =0AIn our experiment=85.whether or= not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if =A0it requires just has= .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the motor or from centrif= ugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion until such a force i= s produced from either of those tow possibilities to overcome what is by de= finition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 =A0now if the condition that pro= duces a sync is one where the resistance is greater then any force to cause= it to rotate then how on earth can you suggest that it is in rotational mo= tion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes. Namely what you are putting= forward is that while in one motor is not =A0able to rotate due to some re= sistance the other motor overcome that resistance and is also equally in sy= nc=85.you cannot have one motor in a forced rotational motion =A0while the = other motor is without force and by definition prevented from =A0rotation a= nd claim those are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion equivalent to a non motion wrt= the same things namely, the orbital plate=85=85.. =A0=A0if before the orbi= t begins one motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prev= ented from rotation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the = one to 100rpm and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented = from rotation=85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized mot= or to the same state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotat= ion before we began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor= is one of no rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then the= re is not logical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical = sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity a= s well as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a for= ce and we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you have a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other moto= r does not mean it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissua= nce to that force=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for = forces comes from the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, a= gain if the force is not greater then the resistance to that force there wi= ll still be no rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist= during.=A0 The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mot= or is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient =A0force and = as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that same condition i= n order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the= other cannot either, if they are doing the same things=85. If one motor ha= s insufficient force to cause a rotation then the other motor must also hav= e insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwise there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital plate. There is sim= ply no logical way to claim a rotation when =A0your arguments =0A1. =93 pur= e geometry=94 does not describe reality and =0A2.=A0 There is no demonstata= ble force sufficient to overcome resistance and cause motion =0A=A0--- On T= hu, 12/18/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AIf there = is no motion before and no motion after the orbit then what is the claim of= rotation based on during the orbit=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep refe= rring to is the orbit. There is no second motion except in your head partic= ularly since there is no way to define it except in imagination that is abs= ent of facts in reality..=A0 The only logical claim is that there is a prev= ention of rotation in our experiment not a rotation...subsequently that is = the only demonstratable claim we can make for the moon.....something is pre= venting it from rotation not causing it to rotate....you cannot assume the = very thing you are trying to ascertain as evidence for itself.... =0A=A0 = =0A=A0 =0AFrom: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocent= rism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December= 18, 2008, 10:59 PM=0A=0A=0AIf you don=92t understand what I am saying plea= se get someone who can actually debate this issue with me=85.=A0=A0Allen=0A= =A0=0A=A0=0APerhaps someone with autism...=A0 I saw an interesting experien= ce of autistic children experiencing new life with dolphins..=A0 They taugh= t thes kids how to relate affectionately with their parents.. I thought tha= t marvellous..=A0 =0A=A0=0AI saw sea lions today acting like the lovliest a= nd most loving of dogs. It was claimed that they were endangered with only = 2 or 3 thousand left.. Thats in keeping with the consummation I suppose. = =0A=A0=0APhilip. =0A=A0 =0A________________________________=0AStay connect= ed to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look. =0A__= ______________________________=0AStay connected to the people that matter m= ost with a smarter inbox. Take a look. =0A________________________________= =0AStay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take= a look. --0-78544911-1229884884=:14438 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he= ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1= 4pt"><DIV><FONT size=3D2>=0A<P>I don=92t need your permission for the numbe= r of words I use=85. See attached diagram=85If you don=92t get this=85I don= =92t care what you "conclude"=85understand that!</P></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A<DI= V style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>= =0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, t= imes, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>----- Forwarded Message ----<BR><= B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Paul Deema <paul_de= ema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> = geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SP= AN></B> Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:18:13 AM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEI= GHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<D= IV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A= <DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>In ten words or less Allen= .</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Not an explanation -- just "Please PLEAS= E <STRONG>PLEASE</STRONG> -- <EM>where</EM> is the common point to which Ur= anus is radially and progressively orienting itself."</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nb= sp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>If you won't answer I'll have to conclude that you're = ;just blowing smoke.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, = helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s= erif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FON= T-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves= @allendaves.com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> = geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SP= AN></B> Sunday, 21 December, 2008 5:14:21 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIG= HT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE = cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign= =3Dtop><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>Phil,</DIV>=0A<DIV>"Rigid body= " is not necessary to be part of the definition...and why you think it must= be just demonstrates that you do not understand at all =85.there are plent= y of bodies that are not ridged that can perform progressive radial orienta= tions to a common point=85.that definition of rotation defines it even= for non rigid bodies as well as in 2d space</DIV></FONT>=0A<DIV>&nbs= p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Paul,</DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>I addresse= d what the common point is for each rotation I was extremely specific for b= oth a planetary rotation as well as well as a orbital rotation. I even insi= nuated that you were stupid and offered to apologies if you would just get = someone to explain to me what part of my answer did not answer your questio= n=85.i have no doubt that you do not like the answers IM giving but I go to= a lot of trouble to explain why, but then you only accuse me of obfuscatin= g and or avoiding and or not answering .=85I=92m not going to repeat it all= here again =85you want to play the village idiot that is your privilege = =85.</DIV>=0A<DIV></FONT></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV>If you don=92t understa= nd my definition then what are you objecting to? Every time someone attempt= s to explain to you two what that definition means and or how it is applica= ble to the everyday world. you just make more empty assertions and fail to = address the arguments and then turn right around and claim you don=92t unde= rstand=85..no wonder!?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>We have arrived at = a point in this conversation where your accusations about my arguments are = the and only essence to any and all of your arguments=85you want to play st= upid that is your problem=85.I will proceed with or without you=85.If you c= annot understand enough of what I have given you to grasps even a morsel so= as to address it =85 then by all means I=92m more then willing to let you = wallow ignorance and play the dancing fool=85</DIV></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B= >Sun, 12/21/08, Allen Daves <I><allendaves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<= BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT= : rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><= BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Sunday, Decemb= er 21, 2008, 8:34 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv2048363009>=0A<TABLE cellSpacin= g=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop><FONT= size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV>Then as i said maybe you need you to get s= omeone else to make your case and or help you out "you poor thing"... ..fun= ny you and your ilk seem to be the only ones that are quite so clueless as = you make yourself out to be........but then again i wonder if it is just a = act or you really are not able to discuss this issue......either way it is = your problem play stupid or be stupid if you want to=85..I=92m not so sure = there is much if any difference at this point=85=85... I will continue with= or without you....but i will not entertain any more stupidity...and if you= cant get it then get Regner to explain it for you. He did not seem to have= quite the difficulty with that defintion or its application as I am using = it here...</DIV></FONT></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <= I><paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"= PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"= >From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] = Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20,= 2008, 11:14 PM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1356393172>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css= ><!--#yiv2048363009 #yiv1356393172 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV s= tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV= ></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>If your drawings and explanations w= ere clear, I would have no need of further clarification.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbs= p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>I remind you again of the origin of the name of this thread= -- 'Uranus'. I asked you to identify the 'common point' to which Uran= us was radially and progressively orienting itself. In the centre of the Su= n would have been an understandable answer; in the centre of Uranus would h= ave been an understandable answer; in the centre of the galaxy would have b= een an understandable answer -- all incorrect of course, but the answ= er would have been comprehensible. It would have been the jumping off point= to refine just where this elusive point is located.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </D= IV>=0A<DIV>You consistently avoid any such answer, usually intimating that = I lack the intellect and the honesty to " ... deal with what I have already= given you ..." Instead we get your usual verbose, tangential word storm.</= DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I am trying to understand your definition. = Please -- in not more than ten words -- <EM>where</EM> is the common point = to which Uranus is radially and progressively orienting itself.</DIV>= =0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Pau= l D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FA= MILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; F= ONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma si= ze=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN>= </B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><S= PAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR= ><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, 20 Decembe= r, 2008 10:25:09 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN>= </B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPaddi= ng=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNor= mal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>P= aul, </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT siz= e=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT> =0A<P class=3DMso= Normal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=3D"Times New= Roman">One the one hand you proclaime it is =93</FONT><SPAN style=3D"FONT-= FAMILY: Arial">too much/too little -- too late=94 .</SPAN><FONT face= =3D"Times New Roman">=85while in the same post challenging me to answer you= ....practically daring me not to answer you on pains of not being able to = be coherent=85...Then......Whenever I answer you, then you accuse me of bro= wbeating and obfuscation.........If I do not answer you, then you accuse me= of avoiding the issue!? =85.. You claim to extend your hand and that I kee= p biting, <SPAN> </SPAN>when the reality Paul is just the opposite=85I= answer and address and offer, it is you who keep biting the hand that feed= s=85=85..</FONT></FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0p= t"> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face= =3D"Times New Roman"><FONT size=3D3>If you are really interested then deal = with what I have already given you=85=85.If you don=92t understand the word= s =93A Progressive radial orientation to a common point=94 as it related to= the numerous examples I have already provided and the applications to the = real world and the experiments we have discussed..... then I don=92t think = anyone can help you in your tireless and charitable labor of <SPAN>&nb= sp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">p= erseverance</SPAN><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">..=85</FONT></FONT> =0A<DI= V><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT = face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"= Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style= =3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Allen Daves <I>&l= t;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDIN= G-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From:= Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocent= rism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 10:39 AM<BR><BR>= =0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1985976936>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border= =3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"= MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 12/20/08, Paul Deema <I><pau= l_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-L= EFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Pa= ul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranu= s<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 5:= 57 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv987736098>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv20= 48363009 #yiv1356393172 #yiv1985976936 #yiv987736098 DIV {margin:0px;}--></= STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, s= ans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>It's too little -= - or perhaps that should be too much -- too late.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>= =0A<DIV>How many times have I held my hand out to you, and how many times d= id you bite it? </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>Here's a test. Try t= o explain to me what is meant by "Rotation -- a progressive radial orientat= ion to a common point," in not less than three paragraphs and not more than= 100 words, with no spelling errors and correctly punctuated. If you can do= that, then you'll get some idea of what it takes to communicate rathe= r than to brow-beat and to demonstrate consideration for your fellow m= an.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>The preceeding three paragraphs contai= n 99 words.</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica= , sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI= ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"F= ONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT= face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: b= old">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@allendaves= .com><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism= @freelists.org<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Fri= day, 19 December, 2008 4:17:39 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">S= ubject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing= =3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P = class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Time= s New Roman" size=3D3>Common guys =85I can=92t not believe it is this hard = for you=85unless it is willful=85.</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle= style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbs= p;</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><= FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I understand your arguments...all yo= u do is keep coming at this issue with two basic arguments=85</FONT> = =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face= =3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMidd= le style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1.= "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in reality because= "pure geometry is "pure imagination".... but I addressed it as "= pure geometry" in Parent =931=94 & the plate diagrams which = leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any quantifiable and obje= ctively meaningful definition applicable in the real world.....as well as&n= bsp;the fact that real rotation has real requirements not just imaginary = =93pure geometry=94=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MA= RGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> = =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face= =3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Or</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle s= tyle=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> = </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FO= NT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2. Rotation due to a force=85which has= more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical concept=85.I address = this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams...</FONT> =0A<P cl= ass=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times= New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style= =3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> You = canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches taking what you lik= e and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with it...when it sui= ts you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not the cherry picki= ng you attempt in your reasoning....</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMidd= le style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></= FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"= ><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In our experiment=85.whether or no= t the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if <SPAN> </SPAN>it requ= ires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energizing the motor or= from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is no motion until s= uch a force is produced from either of those tow possibilities to overcome = what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 <SPAN> </SPAN>= now if the condition that produces a sync is one where the resistance is gr= eater then any force to cause it to rotate then how on earth can you sugges= t that it is in rotational motion. It leads to contradictions and paradoxes= . Namely what you are putting forward is that while in one motor is not <SP= AN> </SPAN>able to rotate due to some resistance the other motor overc= ome that resistance and is also equally in sync=85.you cannot have one moto= r in a forced rotational motion <SPAN> </SPAN>while the other motor is without forc= e and by definition prevented from <SPAN> </SPAN>rotation and claim th= ose are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion = equivalent to a non motion wrt the same things namely, the orbital plate=85= =85.. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>if before the orbit begins one = motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prevented from ro= tation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the one to 100rpm= and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation= =85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized motor to the sam= e state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation before we= began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor is one of no= rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then there is not log= ical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity as wel= l as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a force an= d we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you ha= ve a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other motor does not mean= it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissuance to that for= ce=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for forces comes fr= om the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, again if the for= ce is not greater then the resistance to that force there will still be no = rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist during.<SPAN>&= nbsp; </SPAN>The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mo= tor is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient <SPAN> = </SPAN>force and as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that= same condition in order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the other cannot either, if they are doing the same = things=85. If one motor has insufficient force to cause a rotation then the= other motor must also have insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwi= se there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital p= late. There is simply no logical way to claim a rotation when <SPAN> <= /SPAN>your arguments </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARG= IN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1. =93 pure geomet= ry=94 does not describe reality and </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddl= e style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2.<= SPAN> There is no demonstatable </SPAN>force sufficient to overcome r= esistance and cause motion </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style= =3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FO= NT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirs= t style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">If there is no motion before and no motion = after the orbit then what is the claim of rotation based on during the orbi= t=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep referring to is the orbit. There is no= second motion except in your head particularly since there is no way to de= fine it except in imagination that is absent of facts in reality.. Th= e only logical claim is that there is a prevention of rotation in our exper= iment not a rotation...subsequently that is the only demonstratable claim w= e can make for the moon.....something is preventing it from rotation not ca= using it to rotate....you cannot assume the very thing you are trying to as= certain as evidence for itself....</FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Fri, 12/19/08, A= llen Daves <I><allendaves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE= style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) = 2px solid">From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: Uranu= s<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 7:44= AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv2014330894>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding= =3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<P class=3DMsoNorma= lCxSpFirst style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" siz= e=3D3>Common guys =85I can=92t not believe it is this hard for you=85unless= it is willful=85.</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN= : 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P = class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Tim= es New Roman" size=3D3>All you do is keep coming at this with two basi= c arguments=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0i= n 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P clas= s=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times N= ew Roman" size=3D3>1. "Purely Geometrical"=85.which is not even possible in= reality because "pure geometry is "pure imagination".... bu= t I addressed it as "pure geometry" in Parent =931=94 & the = plate diagrams which leads to physical absurdities in that it prevents any = quantifiable and objectively meaningful definition applicable in the real w= orld.....as well as the fact that real rotation has real requirements = not just imaginary =93pure geometry=94=85</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxS= pMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size= =3D3> </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0= in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Or</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMso= NormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roma= n" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN= : 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2. Rotation due to a= force=85which has more to do with reality then just a pure geometrical con= cept=85.I address this approach in th motors snyc and tether ball diagrams.= ..</FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><= FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNorma= lCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" si= ze=3D3> You canot jump back and fourth between these two approaches ta= king what you like and ignoring the rest of "the baggage" each carries with= it...when it suits you .....you can take either, OR, or both but not = the cherry picking you attempt in your reasoning....</FONT> =0A<P class=3D= MsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New R= oman" size=3D3></FONT> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MAR= GIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In our experiment= =85.whether or not the motor is welded to the orbital plate or if <SPAN>&nb= sp;</SPAN>it requires just has .5ftb of torque to rotate either from energi= zing the motor or from centrifugal force generated by the orbit=85there is = no motion until such a force is produced from either of those tow possibili= ties to overcome what is by definition a reissuance to move or rotate=85 <S= PAN> </SPAN>now if the condition that produces a sync is one where the= resistance is greater then any force to cause it to rotate then how on ear= th can you suggest that it is in rotational motion. It leads to contradicti= ons and paradoxes. Namely what you are putting forward is that while in one= motor is not <SPAN> </SPAN>able to rotate due to some resistance the = other motor overcome that resistance and is also equally in sync=85.you can= not have one motor in a forced rotational motion <SPAN> </SPAN>while the other motor is without forc= e and by definition prevented from <SPAN> </SPAN>rotation and claim th= ose are the two conditions are one and the same=85you cannot have a motion = equivalent to a non motion wrt the same things namely, the orbital plate=85= =85.. <SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>if before the orbit begins one = motor is spinning at 200rpm and the other is mechanically prevented from ro= tation then you cannot claim that you are going to reduce the one to 100rpm= and be in sync with the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation= =85The only way to achieve snyc is to reduce the energized motor to the sam= e state of the motor that is mechanically prevented from rotation before we= began=85.If the condition of the mechanically prevented motor is one of no= rotation before we began and after we stop the orbit then there is not log= ical claim to motion during except in your purely geometrical sense but as I have already demonstrated that Leeds to physical absurdity as wel= l as technically incorrect since rotation real rotation requires a force an= d we are addressing it as such in this experiment=85... Just because you ha= ve a centrifugal and or any force acting upon the other motor does not mean= it will rotate unless the force is greater then the reissuance to that for= ce=85in the motor that is not energized the only source for forces comes fr= om the centrifugal effects of the orbital motion. However, again if the for= ce is not greater then the resistance to that force there will still be no = rotation before, after and as such no logical claim it exist during.<SPAN>&= nbsp; </SPAN>The only logical claim based on the observation is that one mo= tor is prevented from rotation due to friction or insufficient <SPAN> = </SPAN>force and as such the other energized motor will and must mimic that= same condition in order to manifest the same effects=85If the one has not rotation then the other cannot either, if they are doing the same = things=85. If one motor has insufficient force to cause a rotation then the= other motor must also have insufficient force to cause a rotation. Otherwi= se there is no way the two could be doing the same things wrt the orbital p= late. There is simply no logical way to claim a rotation when <SPAN> <= /SPAN>your arguments </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARG= IN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>1. =93 pure geomet= ry=94 does not describe reality and </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddl= e style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>2.<= SPAN> There is no demonstatable </SPAN>force sufficient to overcome r= esistance and cause motion </FONT>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style= =3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FO= NT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirs= t style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">If there is no motion before and no motion = after the orbit then what is the claim of rotation based on during the orbi= t=85the =93rotation=94 you both keep referring to is the orbit. There is no= second motion except in your head particularly since there is no way to de= fine it except in imagination that is absent of facts in reality.. Th= e only logical claim is that there is a prevention of rotation in our exper= iment not a rotation...subsequently that is the only demonstratable claim w= e can make for the moon.....something is preventing it from rotation not ca= using it to rotate....you cannot assume the very thing you are trying to as= certain as evidence for itself.... =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style= =3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpFirst style=3D"M= ARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormalCxSpMiddle style=3D"MARGI= N: 0in 0in 0pt"></FONT>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/08, philip madsen <I><pma150= 27@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEF= T: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: phil= ip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Ura= nus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, = 10:59 PM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1032697110>=0A<STYLE></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV><FO= NT face=3DArial>If you don=92t understand what I am saying please get someo= ne who can actually debate this issue with me=85. <SPAN> Allen</S= PAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV= >=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT f= ace=3DArial><SPAN>Perhaps someone with autism... I saw an interesting= experience of autistic children experiencing new life with dolphins.. = ; They taught thes kids how to relate affectionately with their parents.. I= thought that marvellous.. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DA= rial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN>I saw= sea lions today acting like the lovliest and most loving of dogs. It was c= laimed that they were endangered with only 2 or 3 thousand left.. Thats in = keeping with the consummation I suppose. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT = face=3DArial><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SP= AN>Philip. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D5><FONT face=3DArial><S= PAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY><= /TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>= =0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStay connected to the people that matter most with a sma= rter inbox. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/galaxy/mail/tagline2/*http://= au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Take a = look</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></= TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStay conne= cted to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. <A href=3D"http:/= /au.rd.yahoo.com/galaxy/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarte= rinbox" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Take a look</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><= /TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV= ></DIV></DIV><BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStay connected to the people that matte= r most with a smarter inbox. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/galaxy/mail/= tagline2/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox"; target=3D_blank rel= =3Dnofollow>Take a look</A>.</DIV></DIV></div></body></html> --0-78544911-1229884884=:14438-- --0-673097792-1229884884=:14438 Content-Type: image/x-png; name="Uranus 1.PNG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Uranus 1.PNG" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAA78AAALPCAIAAAAl1+C4AAAACXBIWXMAAA7D AAAOwwHHb6hkAAAgAElEQVR4nO3dXZbkKJMgUF/tbGJW0u+znN6Tz0NmRXq4 JDAQSAjuPXPmZEnIMH6ErKIj63u9AWAiL4Cu7j7lAKAlnzagK0cMAFNRPQNd OWIAmIrqGejKEQPAVFTPQFeOGACmonoGunLEADAV1TPQlSMGgKmonoGuHDEA TEX1DHTliAFgKqpnoCtHDABTUT0DXTliAJiK6hnoyhEDwFRUz0BXjhgApqJ6 BrpyxADP9nq9Vq6WXv+5O5GBmA3GkX5DvbxFxjnu7s+AAb2OBRung6QDxpMs HUhp+8hY4kGyzYqGFhnL+SCDO7+4kZUa3HMz7+f62WhyRPTeohWvSWn7iuTj 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