[geocentrism] Uranus

  • From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:34:48 -0800 (PST)

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Paul,=0AI have no Idea what you are talking about .. =85=85..but you obviou=
sly have no idea what i am talking about either ..Although=A0I personally d=
on't think it could be any easier.. Thank you means =93thank you=94?...... =
I used mercury as an example and it was a improper one because its motions =
are not the same as the moon. I based that on a old idea that was stuck in =
my head. I would not have realized that if you had not given the reference =
you did because I did not look it up=85.=85.but this does not affect in any=
 shape form or fashion the arguments or debate on rotation and motion=85..=
=85How can this be so difficult? ..If you want to spend your time=A0address=
ing mercury and Uranus and everything under the sun latterly except for rot=
ation,=85. then......go ahead but they do not define rotation and motion!?.=
....... Until you start to address rotation=A0 and motion itself, which is =
what this is all about, (changing the name does not change that)...debate i=
s
 impossible. There is no reasoning with you =85=85.. ..as=A0for=A0=A0"crush=
ing demonstration"=A0I have already given you several and you don=92t even =
get it......??? I=92m focused on rotation and motion=85.. I don=92t always =
=93comb=94 through every detail of every detail in your arguments =A0partic=
ularly if it is not important or does not affect the debate one way or the =
other!?=A0 =0A=A0=0AYour support of Phil is somewhat baffling???=85How can =
you be so clueless unless its willful?!.. I know write difficult sometimes =
and sometime it takes a while to find each other=85, but gee wiz=85=85.how =
much simpler can something be made before you can =A0see enough of it to ev=
en begin to address them?! Do you realize you either willfully or ignorantl=
y do not even comprehend enough to address what I am putting forward..?!=85=
 You and Phil talk about everything except the arguments I give you and you=
 don=92t seem to comprehend enough to even begin to address them=85=85If yo=
u don=92t understand what I am saying please get someone who can actually d=
ebate this issue with me=85.=A0=A0=0A=A0=0AIf=A0the experiment uses a non m=
oving part to demonstrate synchronicity=85..how on earth can anyone claim t=
hat a moving part could ever show the same orientation and motion=A0as a no=
n moving part=A0in the exact same mechanical configuration doing the exact =
same things?!=A0 How can you have a fixed position that moves?!..How can yo=
u have two identical objects doing the same exact things while one is in mo=
tion and the other is not?! How can you have a motion that is also=A0equaly=
 a=A0non motion wrt the same things?! =0A=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A"Is the motor rotor=
 and disc attached FREE to rotate,..?"=0A=0ANo.....=A0what you=A0are not fu=
lly appreciating is the fact=A0=A0THAT=A0CONDITION "being locked to the sta=
tor" =A0IS THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF SYCRONOUS...Phil, only a motor that has some=
 kind of Mechanical resistance or a ball that has a tether will demontrate =
snycronisity..........Ithat requires..no, It=A0DEMANDS a prevention of any =
additional rotataion ....That is my point! ........of course it is "looked =
to the stator" if it were not then it would be free to move...........Punch=
 line:=A0=A0 ......... It is only in This demonstration of somthing that ab=
solutly cannot move, ( because it is "locked to the stator")=A0=A0that we f=
ind the syncronisity you keep refering to....=0ASo what is demonstrated....=
.. and what=A0can only be=A0imagined?=0AAnything is posible in the mind Phi=
l, ...=A0but what have we just demonstrated?=0AWe just demonstrated somthin=
g and it is the only thing we can demonstrate without imagining something t=
hat has no meaning outside=A0one's head.....=0A=0A=0A______________________=
__________=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@fr=
eelists.org=0ASent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:48:29 PM=0ASubject: [geoc=
entrism] Re: Uranus=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=A0=0AYour link is broken. Got anothe=
r one? =0A=A0=0AYou say ... "Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please=
 address the arguments put before you=85"=0A=A0=0AThis is a highly imperiou=
s attitude and somewhat insulting. We are at this point because it is you w=
ho won't address the arguments put to you. This thread is titled "Uranus". =
It is called that because I asked you where the "Common Point" for Uranus' =
"Progressive Radial Orientation" was located which you failed to address. I=
 asked you about Uranus because I thought it would be easier for you to add=
ress than the same question related to the Moon which you also failed to ad=
dress.=0A=A0=0AYou are doing the same to Philip as we speak in relation to =
the functioning of a model involving motors.=0A=A0=0AI am truly being drawn=
 inexorably to the conclusion that debate with you is impossible. It will t=
ake a crushing demonstration -- and that's coming soon.=0A=A0Paul D=0A=A0=
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" =
<allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Thursda=
y, 18 December, 2008 3:37:20 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0A=0A=
Ok....Paul=A0your own source demonstrates that was=A0one view point at one =
time.......my analogy=A0was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the=
 1:1 to 2:3=A0 Gravitational /"tidal lock" =A0=A0http://courses.nnu.edu/ph1=
06wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm=A0=A0 =0A=A0=0AThe tet=
her ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would not ap=
ply to mercury since the moon and mercury do not have the same motions...wh=
ich would still support my postion=85.=0A=A0=0AThis does not help your argu=
ment or your positions=A0and you still refuse to address the issue before u=
s....If you took the orbit away you could still observe a rotation....thus =
the motions can be isolated and separated from each other...therefore we ca=
n consider mercury to have a real rotation around a common point that lay w=
ithin mercury itself.......this does not hold true for the moon nor did it =
hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back wh=
en......=0A=A0=0A=0AThanks for the mercury correction=85now please address =
the arguments put before you=85=0A--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Allen Daves <allend=
aves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubj=
ect: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December 18, =
2008, 7:03 AM=0A=0A=0AOk....Paul=A0your own source demonstrates that was=A0=
one view point at one time.......my analogy=A0was based on old idea...and I=
m happy to correct the 1:1 to 2:3=A0 Gravitational /"tidal lock" =A0=A0http=
://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm=
=A0=A0 =0A=A0=0AThe tether ball example applies to the moon although you ar=
e right it would not apply to mercury since the moon and mercury do not hav=
e the same motions...which would still support my postion=85.=0A=A0=0AThis =
does not help your argument or your positions=A0and you still refuse to add=
ress the issue before us....If you took the orbit away you could still obse=
rve a rotation....thus the motions can be isolated and separated from each =
other...therefore we can consider mercury to have a real rotation around a =
common point that lay within mercury itself.......this does not hold true f=
or the moon nor did it hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Science" tho=
ught it had way back when......=0A=A0=0AThanks for the mercury correction=
=85now please address the arguments put before you=85=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A-=
-- On Thu, 12/18/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: =
Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0AT=
o: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 3:24 AM=
=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AOK -- this seems like just another one of those thing=
s you refuse to discuss.=0A=0AWell if you won't discuss it, please provide =
me with a reference which refutes the description of Mercury's rotation and=
 revolution=A0found (among many others) here -=0A=0A=A0http://physics.fortl=
ewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.HTM=A0=0A=
=0A... and which supports your description below -=0A=0A[geocentrism] Uranu=
s=0AFrom allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sun Dec 14 23:42:54 2008=0AHint:=A0 as w=
ith the tether ball and the synchronous orbit of mercury.( it keeps the sam=
e side facing the sun at all times).......there is no rotation or rotationa=
l force in either.... There is only a force or resistance that prevents a r=
otation, there is no rotation and no cause for a rotation...Rotation is pre=
vented not sustained in mercury.... =0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________=
____________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@allend=
aves.com>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 16 December, 200=
8 7:12:46 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul, =0A=A0=0AWhen yo=
u get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very heart of=
 the issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentation" th=
at change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those I have=
 given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your arguments=
 will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or physical =
absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are logica=
l yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... yours are =
based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/=
16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <al=
lendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADat=
e: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:11 AM=0A=0A=0APaul, =0A=A0=0AWhen you get=
 around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very heart of the =
issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentation" that ch=
ange absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those I have give=
n you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your arguments will=
 not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or physical absur=
dities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are logical you=
rs are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... yours are based=
 on assuming what you can only imagine is true...=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12=
/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <p=
aul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentris=
m@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen =
D=0A=A0=0AThe problem here is that your definition of rotation and its appl=
ication is under challenge and you will do anything to avoid discussing the=
 issue -- contempt, prevarication, obfuscation, diversion, pretence that yo=
u posed some other question -- it goes on and on ad nauseam. I -- and other=
s -- labour under the assumption that you are a reasonable man and so we tr=
y to treat with you as though you are that reasonable man. But what we get =
is your fanatical defence of your=A0questionable definition. This puts us a=
t a significant disadvantage because you do not treat us as reasonable peop=
le.=0ATo show that I at least will persevere, state plainly what is the que=
stion which you have given me and I will address it, if you in turn will ad=
dress the question of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and its ra=
te of rotational angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definitions=
 must be used since you have also resolutely avoided explanation of your pr=
ivate definition. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time and ma=
ke some progress.=0A=A0=0APaul D=0A=0APS Three days in a row now you have p=
osted the same message twice. Why so?=0A=0A=0A_____________________________=
___=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: g=
eocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM=0ASu=
bject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul,=A0=A0Your nonsense is simply usin=
g the word "turn"=A0to attempt to claim=A0proof for what=A0constitutes your=
 definition of it,=A0 which is the very thing under consideration..!?!=0A=
=A0=0ADeal with what=A0I have given you ........linguistic acrobatics and d=
iversions from the issue=A0is not doing your=A0argument any good....=0A=0A"=
the characteristics of Mercury's motions"=A0 the nature of those motions Pa=
ul is what we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit tryin=
g to claim your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your argument=
s?!.. =0A=A0=0AJust more nonsense from you ...oh when oh when, will it ever=
 end?......=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@y=
ahoo.co.uk> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject=
: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Tuesday,=
 December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AI guess you missed it. Her=
e is the relevant portion again with the key word highlighted -=0A=0AI have=
=A0a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The turnta=
ble weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking from abov=
e) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial veloci=
ty which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin toturn in the=
 same direction at the same rate -- guess what? =0AAnd the matter of your a=
bysmal ignorance of the characteristics of Mercury's motions?????=0A=0AI wa=
s saving this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of your illu=
strations which I have augmented. Care to comment?=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al=
lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 1=
6 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0A=A0"gue=
ss what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!=
=A0"...Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the ground a=
nd don't=A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rotation!.=
.....ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pon=
t that lay within the body itself......=A0=0AThat I believe is synchronism.=
 Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turnta=
ble is still turning!=A0 congragulations, when you stoped you observed=A0th=
e inertial effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh but wait,...... it was not rota=
ting earlier....because it=A0was prevented from rotating by the mechanical =
friction!=A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mercury are prevented from rotati=
ng while in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples the synchronisim is the fact th=
at it is not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not and cannot be=
 synchronous..=0A=A0=0APhil shows us a rotation that is prevented and attem=
pts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and n=
ow you=A0offer us=A0the fact that somthing did=A0not=A0rotate as evidence t=
hat it rotated?!=A0........... the diversion here is yours...now answer the=
 chalenges ..your empty, vain=A0 accusations and words weary me.... =0A=0A-=
-- On Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: A=
llen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@freel=
ists.org=0ADate: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:29 AM=0A=0A=0A=A0"guess what=
? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!=A0"...G=
uess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the ground and don't=
=A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rotation!......ge =
we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pont that l=
ay within the body itself......Phil shows us a rotation that is prevented a=
nd attempts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?.=
...and now you=A0offer us=A0the fact that somthing did=A0not=A0rotate as ev=
idence that it rotated?!=A0=0A=0A=0AThat I believe is synchronism. Even mor=
e -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is st=
ill turning!=A0 congragulations, when you stoped you observed=A0the inertia=
l effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh but wait,...... it was not rotating earl=
ier....because it=A0was prevented from rotating by the mechanical friction!=
=A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mercury are prevented from rotating while =
in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples the synchronisim is the fact that it is =
not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not and cannot be synchron=
ous... the diversion here is yours...now answer the chalenges ..your empty =
and vain words weary me.... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema=
 <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxx=
.uk>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0A=
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AI have=A0a t=
urntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The turntable we=
ighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking from above) and=
 wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial velocity whi=
ch I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin to turn in the same=
 direction at the same rate -- guess what? The arrow head I painted on the =
turntable stays pointing at me!!!=A0That I believe is synchronism. Even mor=
e -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is st=
ill turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have read your various theses!=0A=0AY=
ou entreat Philip to answer one of your challenges. One of the standard All=
en Daves diversionary tactics -- pretend not to have noticed the solitary c=
hallenge to you and reply with many of yours thought up on the spur of the =
moment. While you are thinking on this, note that I have noted your non-res=
ponse to my highlighting of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orbit and=
 rotation of Mercury (note the spelling. Not even American usage=A0can excu=
se "Murcury"). Can we expect that you will correct this oversight?=0A=0APau=
l D=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@alle=
ndaves.com" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0AS=
ent: Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=
=0A=0A=0APhil,=0A=A0=0A"we are going around in "circles" getting nowhere...=
"=0A=A0=0AI=A0said this is where=A0the discussion =A0is "going" .....(pun i=
ntended)........but I=92m going to try yet once more to get you to answer e=
ven a single challenge of mine to=A0you....I keep having to address your=A0=
 challenges or otherwise my words mean=A0nothing so you said...=A0but you d=
on=92t seem to see the point of addressing mine.......ummmm..well here is a=
 "turntable" type example see attached and answer! =0A=A0 =0A=A0=A0"BUT IT =
WILL NOT BE SO.=A0 IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREES AWAY FROM YOU..=A0 You ca=
n believe me I have actually done this several times."..I know i addressed =
that many times..." =0ABut to get them syncronous ..that does not happen do=
es it!....Therefore, you cannot lay claim to=A0a effect that does not exist=
 when they are syncronized as=A0your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncr=
onised it does not exist.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would se=
e it and that would be a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them t=
o syncronize you must negate that effect!....by the way=A0which way does it=
 rotate clokwise or counter clockwise?...ummm....=A0=A0.........as i have p=
ointed out .....it takes a force to prevent that rotation,........ you stil=
l show us no rotation in the same direction of the orbit=A0......... At bes=
t on a good day this could only be considered=A0to be =A0a prevention of ro=
tational motion not=A0a demonstration of a rotation!?! =0A=0A=0A =0A_______=
_________________________=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Brav=
ia TV. Enter now.  =0A________________________________=0AStart your day wit=
h Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now.  =0A________________________=
________=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now.=
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--0-1130472064-1229657688=:95550
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
4pt"><DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Paul,</SPAN></P>=0A<=
P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have no Idea what you are talkin=
g about .. =85=85..but you obviously have no idea what i am talking about e=
ither ..Although&nbsp;I personally don't think it could be any easier.. Tha=
nk you means =93thank you=94?...... I used mercury as an example and it was=
 a improper one because its motions are not the same as the moon. I based t=
hat on a old idea that was stuck in my head. I would not have realized that=
 if you had not given the reference you did because I did not look it up=85=
.=85.but this does not affect in any shape form or fashion the arguments or=
 debate on rotation and motion=85..=85How can this be so difficult? ..If yo=
u want to spend your time&nbsp;addressing mercury and Uranus and everything=
 under the sun latterly except for rotation,=85. then......go ahead but the=
y do not define rotation and motion!?........ Until you start to address
 rotation&nbsp; and motion itself, which is what this is all about, <EM><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(changing the name does not change that).</=
SPAN></EM>..debate is impossible. There is no reasoning with you =85=85.. .=
.as&nbsp;for&nbsp;&nbsp;"crushing demonstration"&nbsp;I have already given =
you several and you don=92t even get it......??? I=92m focused on rotation =
and motion=85.. I don=92t always =93comb=94 through every detail of every d=
etail in your arguments <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>particularly if it is not import=
ant or does not affect the debate one way or the other!?<SPAN>&nbsp; </SPAN=
></SPAN></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;</SPAN></P>=
=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your support of Phil is somewh=
at baffling???=85How can you be so clueless unless its willful?!.. I know w=
rite difficult sometimes and sometime it takes a while to find each other=
=85, but gee wiz=85=85.how much simpler can something be made before you ca=
n <SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN>see enough of it to even begin to address them?! Do yo=
u realize you either willfully or ignorantly do not even comprehend enough =
to address what I am putting forward..?!=85 You and Phil talk about everyth=
ing except the arguments I give you and you don=92t seem to comprehend enou=
gh to even begin to address them=85=85If you don=92t understand what I am s=
aying please get someone who can actually debate this issue with me=85.&nbs=
p;<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0i=
n 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial=
"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0i=
n 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial=
"><SPAN><STRONG><U>If&nbsp;the experiment uses a non moving part to demonst=
rate synchronicity=85..how on earth can anyone claim that a moving part cou=
ld ever show the same orientation and motion&nbsp;as a non moving part&nbsp=
;in the exact same mechanical configuration doing the exact same things?!<S=
PAN>&nbsp; </SPAN>How can you have a fixed position that moves?!..How can y=
ou have two identical objects doing the same exact things while one is in m=
otion and the other is not?! How can you have a motion that is also&nbsp;eq=
ualy a&nbsp;non motion wrt the same things?!</U></STRONG> </SPAN></SPAN><BR=
></P></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica,=
 sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new r=
oman, new york, times, serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY=
: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MA=
RGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: Arial"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1=
4pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV><EM>"Is the motor r=
otor and disc attached FREE to rotate,..?"</EM></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>No.....&nbsp;what you&nbsp;are not fully appreciating is the fact&n=
bsp;&nbsp;THAT&nbsp;CONDITION <STRONG><U>"being locked to the stator"</U></=
STRONG> &nbsp;IS THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF SYCRONOUS...Phil, only a motor that ha=
s some kind of Mechanical resistance or a ball that has a tether will demon=
trate snycronisity..........Ithat requires..no, It&nbsp;DEMANDS a preventio=
n of any additional rotataion ....<STRONG><U>That is my point!</U></STRONG>=
 ........<U><STRONG>of course it is "looked to the stator"</STRONG></U> if =
it were not then it would be free to move...........Punch line:&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 ......... I<STRONG><U>t is only in This demonstration of somthing that abs=
olutly cannot move, <EM>( because it is "locked to the stator")</EM>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;that we find the syncronisity you keep refering to....</U></STRONG></D=
IV>=0A<DIV>So what is demonstrated...... and what&nbsp;can only be&nbsp;ima=
gined?</DIV>=0A<DIV>Anything is posible in the mind Phil, ...&nbsp;but what=
 have we just demonstrated?</DIV>=0A<DIV>We just demonstrated somthing and =
it is the only thing we can demonstrate without imagining something that ha=
s no meaning outside&nbsp;one's head.....</DIV><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=
=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">=
From:</SPAN></B> Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPA=
N style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, December 18, 2008 =
7:48:29 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geo=
centrism] Re: Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-F=
AMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P>Allen D</P=
>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P>Your link is broken. Got another one? </P>=0A<P>&nbs=
p;</P>=0A<P>You say ... "Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please add=
ress the arguments put before you=85"</P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P>This is a hi=
ghly imperious attitude and somewhat insulting. We are at this point becaus=
e it is you who won't address the arguments put to you. This thread is titl=
ed "Uranus". It is called that because I asked you where the "Common Point"=
 for Uranus' "Progressive Radial Orientation" was located which you failed =
to address. I asked you about Uranus because I thought it would be easier f=
or you to address than the same question related to the Moon which you also=
 failed to address.</P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P>You are doing the same to Phil=
ip as we speak in relation to the functioning of a model involving motors.<=
/P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P>=0A<P>I am truly being drawn inexorably to the conclusio=
n that debate with you is impossible. It will take a crushing demonstration=
 -- and that's coming soon.</P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P><FONT face=3Darial>=0A<P>Pau=
l D</P>=0A<P>&nbsp;</P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DAria=
l size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAM=
ILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=
=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "a=
llendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SP=
AN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 18 December, 2008=
 3:37:20 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ge=
ocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 borde=
r=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop><BR>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-=
SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok....Paul&nbsp;your own so=
urce demonstrates that was&nbsp;one view point at one time.......my analogy=
&nbsp;was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the 1:1 to 2:3&nbsp; =
Gravitational /"tidal lock" &nbsp;&nbsp;<A href=3D"http://courses.nnu.edu/p=
h106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm" target=3D_blank rel=
=3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20=
and%20Venus.htm</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><S=
PAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">The tethe=
r ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would not appl=
y to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have the same mot=
ions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"=
>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A=
rial', 'sans-serif'">This does not help your argument or your positions&nbs=
p;and you still refuse to address the issue before us....If you took the or=
bit away you could still observe a rotation....thus the motions can be isol=
ated and separated from each other...therefore we can consider mercury to h=
ave a real rotation around a common point that lay within mercury itself...=
....this does not hold true for the moon nor did it hold true for mercury=
=92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back when......</SPAN></DIV>=
=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"=
>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A=
rial', 'sans-serif'"><BR>Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please add=
ress the arguments put before you=85</SPAN></DIV><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/0=
8, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQ=
UOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,2=
55) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: U=
ranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008=
, 7:03 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv381951044>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPa=
dding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok....Paul&nbsp;=
your own source demonstrates that was&nbsp;one view point at one time......=
.my analogy&nbsp;was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the 1:1 to=
 2:3&nbsp; Gravitational /"tidal lock" &nbsp;&nbsp;<A href=3D"http://course=
s.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm" target=
=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20plane=
ts/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm</A>&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN sty=
le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></D=
IV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-seri=
f'">The tether ball example applies to the moon although you are right it w=
ould not apply to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have=
 the same motions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 's=
ans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">This does not help your argument or your po=
sitions&nbsp;and you still refuse to address the issue before us....If you =
took the orbit away you could still observe a rotation....thus the motions =
can be isolated and separated from each other...therefore we can consider m=
ercury to have a real rotation around a common point that lay within mercur=
y itself.......this does not hold true for the moon nor did it hold true fo=
r mercury=92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back when......</SP=
AN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'san=
s-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-F=
AMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Thanks for the mercury correction=85now pleas=
e address the arguments put before you=85</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'=
"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>--- On <B>Thu, 12/=
18/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV=
></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-=
LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx=
&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<=
BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 3:24 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv198681=
7547>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 DIV {margin=
:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, h=
elvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>OK -- this seems lik=
e just another one of those things you refuse to discuss.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbs=
p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Well if you won't discuss it, please provide me with a refe=
rence which refutes the description of Mercury's rotation and revolution&nb=
sp;found (among many others) here -</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE=
 dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV>&nbsp;<A href=3D"http://phys=
ics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.H=
TM" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://physics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/a=
stronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.HTM</A>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOT=
E>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>... and which supports your description below=
 -</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT:=
 0px">=0A<DIV>[geocentrism] Uranus<BR>From <A href=3D"mailto:allendaves@all=
endaves.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:allendaves@al=
lendaves.com">allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> Sun Dec 14 23:42:54 2008</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>Hint:&nbsp; as with the tether ball and the synchronous orbit of me=
rcury.( it keeps the same side facing the sun at all times).......there is =
no rotation or rotational force in either.... There is only a force or resi=
stance that prevents a rotation, there is no rotation and no cause for a ro=
tation...Rotation is prevented not sustained in mercury.... </DIV>=0A<DIV>&=
nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"=
>Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FON=
T-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12p=
t; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahom=
a size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</S=
PAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><=
B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxx=
g<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 Dece=
mber, 2008 7:12:46 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPA=
N></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPad=
ding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Paul, </SPAN></DI=
V>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif=
'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial', 'sans-serif'">When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because=
 mine get to the very heart of the issue, all you keep trying to&nbsp;do &n=
bsp;add "layers of argumentation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but whe=
n you get to addressing those I have given you ,then maybe in that day you =
will start to see why your arguments will not hold water...they lead to log=
ical contradictions and or physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that min=
e do not...yours do..mine are logical yours are not..mine are based on what=
 you can observe......... yours are based on assuming what you can only ima=
gine is true...</SPAN><BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;a=
llendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PAD=
DING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Fr=
om: Allen Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geoc=
entrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:11 AM<BR><BR>=
=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1751651961>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=
=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Paul, </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN>&nbsp=
;</DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-=
serif'">When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to th=
e very heart of the issue, all you keep trying to&nbsp;do &nbsp;add "layers=
 of argumentation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to ad=
dressing those I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to s=
ee why your arguments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradict=
ions and or physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...your=
s do..mine are logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observ=
e......... yours are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...=
</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>=
Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<=
BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE=
R-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxx=
uk&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxx=
g<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1754=
845138>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv17516=
51961 #yiv1754845138 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV=
><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Allen D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT si=
ze=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D3>The problem here is that y=
our definition of rotation and its application is under challenge and you w=
ill do <I>anything</I> to avoid discussing the issue -- contempt, prevarica=
tion, obfuscation, diversion, pretence that you posed some other question -=
- it goes on and on <I>ad nauseam</I>. I -- and others -- labour under the =
assumption that you are a reasonable man and so we try to treat with you as=
 though you are that reasonable man. But what we get is your fanatical defe=
nce of your&nbsp;questionable definition. This puts us at a significant dis=
advantage because you do not treat us as reasonable people.</FONT></DIV>=0A=
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV></FONT><FONT size=3D3>To show that I at least will=
 persevere, state plainly what is the <FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial=
>question which you have given me and I will address it, if you in turn wil=
l address the question of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and it=
s rate of rotational angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definit=
ions must be used since you have also resolutely avoided explanation of you=
r private definition. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time an=
d make some progress.</FONT></FONT><BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV><FO=
NT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></D=
IV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-se=
rif">PS Three days in a row now you have posted the same message twice. Why=
 so?</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, =
sans-serif"><BR><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN st=
yle=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" &lt;=
allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</=
SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold"=
>Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><=
BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=
=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A=
rial', 'sans-serif'">Paul,&nbsp;&nbsp;Your nonsense is simply using the wor=
d "turn"&nbsp;to attempt to claim&nbsp;proof for what&nbsp;constitutes your=
 definition of it,&nbsp; which is the very thing under consideration..!?!</=
SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 's=
ans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT=
-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Deal with what&nbsp;I have given you ......=
..linguistic acrobatics and diversions from the issue&nbsp;is not doing you=
r&nbsp;argument any good....</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>"the c=
haracteristics of Mercury's motions"&nbsp; <SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">the nature of those motions Paul is wha=
t we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit trying to clai=
m your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your arguments?!.. </S=
PAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sa=
ns-serif'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-=
FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Just more nonsense from you ...oh when oh wh=
en, will it ever end?......</SPAN><BR><BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PAD=
DING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">=
=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv515659634>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=
=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxx=
.uk&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &=
lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: g=
eocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM<BR><B=
R>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1132363009>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #y=
iv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #yiv1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 DIV=
 {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 36pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY=
: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV>=
<BR>I guess you missed it. Here is the relevant portion again with the key =
word highlighted -</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=
=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV>I have&nbsp;a turntable and bearing/suspensi=
on system from long long ago. The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it hor=
izontal, <STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff00ff size=3D7>turn</FONT></STRONG> it&nbs=
p;CW (looking from above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicini=
ty of the radial velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey =
and begin to<STRONG><FONT size=3D7> <FONT color=3D#ff00ff>turn</FONT></FONT=
></STRONG> in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? </DIV></BL=
OCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV>And the matter of your abysmal ignorance of the characteri=
stics of Mercury's motions?????</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>I was savi=
ng this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of your illustrati=
ons which I have augmented. Care to comment?</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<D=
IV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><=
BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, s=
ans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new rom=
an, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=
=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allend=
aves.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGH=
T: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT=
-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM<BR><B=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus=
<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBO=
DY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><EM>&nbsp;"guess what? The arrow head=
 I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!&nbsp;"...</EM><FONT col=
or=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the gr=
ound and don't&nbsp;do anything ....&nbsp;you still get&nbsp; geuss what?..=
..no rotation!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation =
to a common pont that lay within the body itself......</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV><EM>That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning=
 (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning!&nbsp;</EM> =
<FONT color=3D#0000ff>congragulations, when you stoped you observed&nbsp;th=
e inertial effects to <U><STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wai=
t,...... it was not rotating earlier....because it&nbsp;was prevented from =
rotating by the mechanical friction!&nbsp; Just like&nbsp;the the moon and =
mercury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!?&nbsp; In all your exam=
ples the synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotat=
tion then it would not and cannot be synchronous..</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FON=
T color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Phil sho=
ws us a rotation that is prevented and attempts to claim that prevention of=
 rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and now you&nbsp;offer us&nbsp;the f=
act that somthing did&nbsp;not&nbsp;rotate as evidence that it rotated?!&nb=
sp;..........</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>. the diversion here is yours...n=
ow answer the chalenges ..your empty, vain&nbsp; accusations and words wear=
y me.... </FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <I>&lt;allenda=
ves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-L=
EFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Al=
len Daves &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentris=
m@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:29 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV=
 id=3Dyiv2076703010>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=
=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><EM>&nbsp;"guess what? The arr=
ow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!&nbsp;"...</EM><F=
ONT color=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on=
 the ground and don't&nbsp;do anything ....&nbsp;you still get&nbsp; geuss =
what?....no rotation!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial orein=
tation to a common pont that lay within the body itself......Phil shows us =
a rotation that is prevented and attempts to claim that prevention of rotat=
ion demonstrates a rotation!?....and now you&nbsp;offer us&nbsp;the fact th=
at somthing did&nbsp;not&nbsp;rotate as evidence that it rotated?!&nbsp;</F=
ONT></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><EM>That I believ=
e is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my d=
onkey) the turntable is still turning!&nbsp;</EM> <FONT color=3D#0000ff>con=
gragulations, when you stoped you observed&nbsp;the inertial effects to <U>=
<STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wait,...... it was not rotat=
ing earlier....because it&nbsp;was prevented from rotating by the mechanica=
l friction!&nbsp; Just like&nbsp;the the moon and mercury are prevented fro=
m rotating while in orbit!?&nbsp; In all your examples the synchronisim is =
the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not an=
d cannot be synchronous... the diversion here is yours...now answer the cha=
lenges ..your empty and vain words weary me.... </FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;=
</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12=
/16/08, Paul Deema <I>&lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;</I></B> wrote:<BR></DI=
V>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:=
 rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<=
BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Da=
te: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1109915657>=
=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #=
yiv1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 #yiv2076703010 #yiv1109915657 DI=
V {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:=
 arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><=
BR>I have&nbsp;a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago=
. The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it&nbsp;CW (lo=
oking from above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of th=
e radial velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begi=
n to turn in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? The arrow h=
ead I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!&nbsp;That I believe =
is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my don=
key) the turntable is still turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have read you=
r various theses!</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>You entreat Philip to an=
swer one of your challenges. One of the standard Allen Daves diversionary t=
actics -- pretend not to have noticed the solitary challenge to you and rep=
ly with many of yours thought up on the spur of the moment. While you are t=
hinking on this, note that I have noted your non-response to my highlightin=
g of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orbit and rotation of Mercury (n=
ote the spelling. Not even American usage&nbsp;can excuse "Murcury"). Can w=
e expect that you will correct this oversight?</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A=
<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV=
><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helv=
etica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new=
 roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D=
1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@alle=
ndaves.com" &lt;allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEI=
GHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FO=
NT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM<BR>=
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uran=
us<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<T=
BODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>Phil,=
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><EM></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><EM>"we are goin=
g around in "circles" getting nowhere..."</EM></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#=
0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in =
0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"><F=
ONT color=3D#0000ff>I&nbsp;said this is where&nbsp;the discussion &nbsp;is =
"going" <I>.....(pun intended)........</I>but I=92m going to try yet once m=
ore to get you to answer even a single challenge of mine to&nbsp;you....I k=
eep having to address your&nbsp; challenges or otherwise my words mean&nbsp=
;nothing so you said...&nbsp;but you don=92t seem to see the point of addre=
ssing mine.......ummmm..well here is a "turntable" type example <B><U>see a=
ttached and answer!</U></B></FONT></SPAN> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"=
MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', =
'sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0i=
n 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">=
<EM>&nbsp;&nbsp;"BUT IT WILL NOT BE SO.&nbsp; IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREE=
S AWAY FROM YOU..&nbsp; You can believe me I have actually done this severa=
l times."..I know i addressed that many times..."</EM></SPAN> =0A<P class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">But to get them <=
STRONG><U>syncronous</U></STRONG> ..that does not happen does it!....</SPAN=
><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Theref=
ore, you cannot lay claim to&nbsp;a effect that does not exist when they ar=
e syncronized as&nbsp;your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncronised it =
does not exist.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would see it and t=
hat would be a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them to syncroni=
ze you must negate that effect!....by the way&nbsp;which way does it rotate=
 clokwise or counter clockwise?...ummm....<SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;</=
SPAN>.........<SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-s=
erif'"><FONT color=3D#0000ff>as i have pointed out .....it takes a force to=
 prevent that rotation,........ you still show us no rotation in the same
 direction of the orbit</FONT></SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;......... At best on a goo=
d day t</SPAN>his could only be considered&nbsp;to be &nbsp;<U><STRONG>a pr=
evention of rotational motion not&nbsp;a demonstration of a rotation!?! </S=
TRONG></U></SPAN></FONT><BR><BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv21=
0522663>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DI=
V><BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia =
TV. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs=
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ABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><=
BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV.=
 <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs.ya=
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