MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1130472064-1229657688=:95550" --0-1130472064-1229657688=:95550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul,=0AI have no Idea what you are talking about .. =85=85..but you obviou= sly have no idea what i am talking about either ..Although=A0I personally d= on't think it could be any easier.. Thank you means =93thank you=94?...... = I used mercury as an example and it was a improper one because its motions = are not the same as the moon. I based that on a old idea that was stuck in = my head. I would not have realized that if you had not given the reference = you did because I did not look it up=85.=85.but this does not affect in any= shape form or fashion the arguments or debate on rotation and motion=85..= =85How can this be so difficult? ..If you want to spend your time=A0address= ing mercury and Uranus and everything under the sun latterly except for rot= ation,=85. then......go ahead but they do not define rotation and motion!?.= ....... Until you start to address rotation=A0 and motion itself, which is = what this is all about, (changing the name does not change that)...debate i= s impossible. There is no reasoning with you =85=85.. ..as=A0for=A0=A0"crush= ing demonstration"=A0I have already given you several and you don=92t even = get it......??? I=92m focused on rotation and motion=85.. I don=92t always = =93comb=94 through every detail of every detail in your arguments =A0partic= ularly if it is not important or does not affect the debate one way or the = other!?=A0 =0A=A0=0AYour support of Phil is somewhat baffling???=85How can = you be so clueless unless its willful?!.. I know write difficult sometimes = and sometime it takes a while to find each other=85, but gee wiz=85=85.how = much simpler can something be made before you can =A0see enough of it to ev= en begin to address them?! Do you realize you either willfully or ignorantl= y do not even comprehend enough to address what I am putting forward..?!=85= You and Phil talk about everything except the arguments I give you and you= don=92t seem to comprehend enough to even begin to address them=85=85If yo= u don=92t understand what I am saying please get someone who can actually d= ebate this issue with me=85.=A0=A0=0A=A0=0AIf=A0the experiment uses a non m= oving part to demonstrate synchronicity=85..how on earth can anyone claim t= hat a moving part could ever show the same orientation and motion=A0as a no= n moving part=A0in the exact same mechanical configuration doing the exact = same things?!=A0 How can you have a fixed position that moves?!..How can yo= u have two identical objects doing the same exact things while one is in mo= tion and the other is not?! How can you have a motion that is also=A0equaly= a=A0non motion wrt the same things?! =0A=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A"Is the motor rotor= and disc attached FREE to rotate,..?"=0A=0ANo.....=A0what you=A0are not fu= lly appreciating is the fact=A0=A0THAT=A0CONDITION "being locked to the sta= tor" =A0IS THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF SYCRONOUS...Phil, only a motor that has some= kind of Mechanical resistance or a ball that has a tether will demontrate = snycronisity..........Ithat requires..no, It=A0DEMANDS a prevention of any = additional rotataion ....That is my point! ........of course it is "looked = to the stator" if it were not then it would be free to move...........Punch= line:=A0=A0 ......... It is only in This demonstration of somthing that ab= solutly cannot move, ( because it is "locked to the stator")=A0=A0that we f= ind the syncronisity you keep refering to....=0ASo what is demonstrated....= .. and what=A0can only be=A0imagined?=0AAnything is posible in the mind Phi= l, ...=A0but what have we just demonstrated?=0AWe just demonstrated somthin= g and it is the only thing we can demonstrate without imagining something t= hat has no meaning outside=A0one's head.....=0A=0A=0A______________________= __________=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@fr= eelists.org=0ASent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 7:48:29 PM=0ASubject: [geoc= entrism] Re: Uranus=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=A0=0AYour link is broken. Got anothe= r one? =0A=A0=0AYou say ... "Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please= address the arguments put before you=85"=0A=A0=0AThis is a highly imperiou= s attitude and somewhat insulting. We are at this point because it is you w= ho won't address the arguments put to you. This thread is titled "Uranus". = It is called that because I asked you where the "Common Point" for Uranus' = "Progressive Radial Orientation" was located which you failed to address. I= asked you about Uranus because I thought it would be easier for you to add= ress than the same question related to the Moon which you also failed to ad= dress.=0A=A0=0AYou are doing the same to Philip as we speak in relation to = the functioning of a model involving motors.=0A=A0=0AI am truly being drawn= inexorably to the conclusion that debate with you is impossible. It will t= ake a crushing demonstration -- and that's coming soon.=0A=A0Paul D=0A=A0= =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" = <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Thursda= y, 18 December, 2008 3:37:20 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0A=0A= Ok....Paul=A0your own source demonstrates that was=A0one view point at one = time.......my analogy=A0was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the= 1:1 to 2:3=A0 Gravitational /"tidal lock" =A0=A0http://courses.nnu.edu/ph1= 06wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm=A0=A0 =0A=A0=0AThe tet= her ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would not ap= ply to mercury since the moon and mercury do not have the same motions...wh= ich would still support my postion=85.=0A=A0=0AThis does not help your argu= ment or your positions=A0and you still refuse to address the issue before u= s....If you took the orbit away you could still observe a rotation....thus = the motions can be isolated and separated from each other...therefore we ca= n consider mercury to have a real rotation around a common point that lay w= ithin mercury itself.......this does not hold true for the moon nor did it = hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back wh= en......=0A=A0=0A=0AThanks for the mercury correction=85now please address = the arguments put before you=85=0A--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Allen Daves <allend= aves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubj= ect: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December 18, = 2008, 7:03 AM=0A=0A=0AOk....Paul=A0your own source demonstrates that was=A0= one view point at one time.......my analogy=A0was based on old idea...and I= m happy to correct the 1:1 to 2:3=A0 Gravitational /"tidal lock" =A0=A0http= ://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm= =A0=A0 =0A=A0=0AThe tether ball example applies to the moon although you ar= e right it would not apply to mercury since the moon and mercury do not hav= e the same motions...which would still support my postion=85.=0A=A0=0AThis = does not help your argument or your positions=A0and you still refuse to add= ress the issue before us....If you took the orbit away you could still obse= rve a rotation....thus the motions can be isolated and separated from each = other...therefore we can consider mercury to have a real rotation around a = common point that lay within mercury itself.......this does not hold true f= or the moon nor did it hold true for mercury=92s motions that "Science" tho= ught it had way back when......=0A=A0=0AThanks for the mercury correction= =85now please address the arguments put before you=85=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A-= -- On Thu, 12/18/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: = Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0AT= o: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 3:24 AM= =0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AOK -- this seems like just another one of those thing= s you refuse to discuss.=0A=0AWell if you won't discuss it, please provide = me with a reference which refutes the description of Mercury's rotation and= revolution=A0found (among many others) here -=0A=0A=A0http://physics.fortl= ewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.HTM=A0=0A= =0A... and which supports your description below -=0A=0A[geocentrism] Uranu= s=0AFrom allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sun Dec 14 23:42:54 2008=0AHint:=A0 as w= ith the tether ball and the synchronous orbit of mercury.( it keeps the sam= e side facing the sun at all times).......there is no rotation or rotationa= l force in either.... There is only a force or resistance that prevents a r= otation, there is no rotation and no cause for a rotation...Rotation is pre= vented not sustained in mercury.... =0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________= ____________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@allend= aves.com>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 16 December, 200= 8 7:12:46 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul, =0A=A0=0AWhen yo= u get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very heart of= the issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentation" th= at change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those I have= given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your arguments= will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or physical = absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are logica= l yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... yours are = based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/= 16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Allen Daves <al= lendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADat= e: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:11 AM=0A=0A=0APaul, =0A=A0=0AWhen you get= around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to the very heart of the = issue, all you keep trying to=A0do =A0add "layers of argumentation" that ch= ange absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to addressing those I have give= n you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your arguments will= not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or physical absur= dities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are logical you= rs are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... yours are based= on assuming what you can only imagine is true...=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12= /16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <p= aul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentris= m@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen = D=0A=A0=0AThe problem here is that your definition of rotation and its appl= ication is under challenge and you will do anything to avoid discussing the= issue -- contempt, prevarication, obfuscation, diversion, pretence that yo= u posed some other question -- it goes on and on ad nauseam. I -- and other= s -- labour under the assumption that you are a reasonable man and so we tr= y to treat with you as though you are that reasonable man. But what we get = is your fanatical defence of your=A0questionable definition. This puts us a= t a significant disadvantage because you do not treat us as reasonable peop= le.=0ATo show that I at least will persevere, state plainly what is the que= stion which you have given me and I will address it, if you in turn will ad= dress the question of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and its ra= te of rotational angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definitions= must be used since you have also resolutely avoided explanation of your pr= ivate definition. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time and ma= ke some progress.=0A=A0=0APaul D=0A=0APS Three days in a row now you have p= osted the same message twice. Why so?=0A=0A=0A_____________________________= ___=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: g= eocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM=0ASu= bject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0APaul,=A0=A0Your nonsense is simply usin= g the word "turn"=A0to attempt to claim=A0proof for what=A0constitutes your= definition of it,=A0 which is the very thing under consideration..!?!=0A= =A0=0ADeal with what=A0I have given you ........linguistic acrobatics and d= iversions from the issue=A0is not doing your=A0argument any good....=0A=0A"= the characteristics of Mercury's motions"=A0 the nature of those motions Pa= ul is what we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit tryin= g to claim your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your argument= s?!.. =0A=A0=0AJust more nonsense from you ...oh when oh when, will it ever= end?......=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <paul_deema@y= ahoo.co.uk> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject= : [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ADate: Tuesday,= December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AI guess you missed it. Her= e is the relevant portion again with the key word highlighted -=0A=0AI have= =A0a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The turnta= ble weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking from abov= e) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial veloci= ty which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin toturn in the= same direction at the same rate -- guess what? =0AAnd the matter of your a= bysmal ignorance of the characteristics of Mercury's motions?????=0A=0AI wa= s saving this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of your illu= strations which I have augmented. Care to comment?=0A=0APaul D=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <al= lendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Tuesday, 1= 6 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus=0A=0A=0A=A0"gue= ss what? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!= =A0"...Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the ground a= nd don't=A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rotation!.= .....ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pon= t that lay within the body itself......=A0=0AThat I believe is synchronism.= Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turnta= ble is still turning!=A0 congragulations, when you stoped you observed=A0th= e inertial effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh but wait,...... it was not rota= ting earlier....because it=A0was prevented from rotating by the mechanical = friction!=A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mercury are prevented from rotati= ng while in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples the synchronisim is the fact th= at it is not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not and cannot be= synchronous..=0A=A0=0APhil shows us a rotation that is prevented and attem= pts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and n= ow you=A0offer us=A0the fact that somthing did=A0not=A0rotate as evidence t= hat it rotated?!=A0........... the diversion here is yours...now answer the= chalenges ..your empty, vain=A0 accusations and words weary me.... =0A=0A-= -- On Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: A= llen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx>=0ASubject: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@freel= ists.org=0ADate: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:29 AM=0A=0A=0A=A0"guess what= ? The arrow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!!=A0"...G= uess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the ground and don't= =A0do anything ....=A0you still get=A0 geuss what?....no rotation!......ge = we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation to a common pont that l= ay within the body itself......Phil shows us a rotation that is prevented a= nd attempts to claim that prevention of rotation demonstrates a rotation!?.= ...and now you=A0offer us=A0the fact that somthing did=A0not=A0rotate as ev= idence that it rotated?!=A0=0A=0A=0AThat I believe is synchronism. Even mor= e -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is st= ill turning!=A0 congragulations, when you stoped you observed=A0the inertia= l effects to CAUSE A ROTATION...oh but wait,...... it was not rotating earl= ier....because it=A0was prevented from rotating by the mechanical friction!= =A0 Just like=A0the the moon and mercury are prevented from rotating while = in orbit!?=A0 In all your examples the synchronisim is the fact that it is = not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not and cannot be synchron= ous... the diversion here is yours...now answer the chalenges ..your empty = and vain words weary me.... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema= <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AFrom: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxx= .uk>=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0A= Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM=0A=0A=0AAllen D=0A=0AI have=A0a t= urntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago. The turntable we= ighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it=A0CW (looking from above) and= wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of the radial velocity whi= ch I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begin to turn in the same= direction at the same rate -- guess what? The arrow head I painted on the = turntable stays pointing at me!!!=A0That I believe is synchronism. Even mor= e -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is st= ill turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have read your various theses!=0A=0AY= ou entreat Philip to answer one of your challenges. One of the standard All= en Daves diversionary tactics -- pretend not to have noticed the solitary c= hallenge to you and reply with many of yours thought up on the spur of the = moment. While you are thinking on this, note that I have noted your non-res= ponse to my highlighting of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orbit and= rotation of Mercury (note the spelling. Not even American usage=A0can excu= se "Murcury"). Can we expect that you will correct this oversight?=0A=0APau= l D=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "allendaves@alle= ndaves.com" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=0AS= ent: Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM=0ASubject: [geocentrism] Uranus= =0A=0A=0APhil,=0A=A0=0A"we are going around in "circles" getting nowhere...= "=0A=A0=0AI=A0said this is where=A0the discussion =A0is "going" .....(pun i= ntended)........but I=92m going to try yet once more to get you to answer e= ven a single challenge of mine to=A0you....I keep having to address your=A0= challenges or otherwise my words mean=A0nothing so you said...=A0but you d= on=92t seem to see the point of addressing mine.......ummmm..well here is a= "turntable" type example see attached and answer! =0A=A0 =0A=A0=A0"BUT IT = WILL NOT BE SO.=A0 IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREES AWAY FROM YOU..=A0 You ca= n believe me I have actually done this several times."..I know i addressed = that many times..." =0ABut to get them syncronous ..that does not happen do= es it!....Therefore, you cannot lay claim to=A0a effect that does not exist= when they are syncronized as=A0your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncr= onised it does not exist.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would se= e it and that would be a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them t= o syncronize you must negate that effect!....by the way=A0which way does it= rotate clokwise or counter clockwise?...ummm....=A0=A0.........as i have p= ointed out .....it takes a force to prevent that rotation,........ you stil= l show us no rotation in the same direction of the orbit=A0......... At bes= t on a good day this could only be considered=A0to be =A0a prevention of ro= tational motion not=A0a demonstration of a rotation!?! =0A=0A=0A =0A_______= _________________________=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Brav= ia TV. Enter now. =0A________________________________=0AStart your day wit= h Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now. =0A________________________= ________=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now.= =0A________________________________=0AMake the switch to the world's best= email. Get Yahoo!7 Mail. =0A________________________________=0AStay conne= cted to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. Take a look. --0-1130472064-1229657688=:95550 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he= ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1= 4pt"><DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Paul,</SPAN></P>=0A<= P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:= 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have no Idea what you are talkin= g about .. =85=85..but you obviously have no idea what i am talking about e= ither ..Although I personally don't think it could be any easier.. Tha= nk you means =93thank you=94?...... I used mercury as an example and it was= a improper one because its motions are not the same as the moon. I based t= hat on a old idea that was stuck in my head. I would not have realized that= if you had not given the reference you did because I did not look it up=85= .=85.but this does not affect in any shape form or fashion the arguments or= debate on rotation and motion=85..=85How can this be so difficult? ..If yo= u want to spend your time addressing mercury and Uranus and everything= under the sun latterly except for rotation,=85. then......go ahead but the= y do not define rotation and motion!?........ Until you start to address rotation and motion itself, which is what this is all about, <EM><SP= AN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(changing the name does not change that).</= SPAN></EM>..debate is impossible. There is no reasoning with you =85=85.. .= .as for "crushing demonstration" I have already given = you several and you don=92t even get it......??? I=92m focused on rotation = and motion=85.. I don=92t always =93comb=94 through every detail of every d= etail in your arguments <SPAN> </SPAN>particularly if it is not import= ant or does not affect the debate one way or the other!?<SPAN> </SPAN= ></SPAN></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></P>= =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S= IZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Your support of Phil is somewh= at baffling???=85How can you be so clueless unless its willful?!.. I know w= rite difficult sometimes and sometime it takes a while to find each other= =85, but gee wiz=85=85.how much simpler can something be made before you ca= n <SPAN> </SPAN>see enough of it to even begin to address them?! Do yo= u realize you either willfully or ignorantly do not even comprehend enough = to address what I am putting forward..?!=85 You and Phil talk about everyth= ing except the arguments I give you and you don=92t seem to comprehend enou= gh to even begin to address them=85=85If you don=92t understand what I am s= aying please get someone who can actually debate this issue with me=85.&nbs= p;<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0i= n 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial= "><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </P>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0i= n 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial= "><SPAN><STRONG><U>If the experiment uses a non moving part to demonst= rate synchronicity=85..how on earth can anyone claim that a moving part cou= ld ever show the same orientation and motion as a non moving part = ;in the exact same mechanical configuration doing the exact same things?!<S= PAN> </SPAN>How can you have a fixed position that moves?!..How can y= ou have two identical objects doing the same exact things while one is in m= otion and the other is not?! How can you have a motion that is also eq= ualy a non motion wrt the same things?!</U></STRONG> </SPAN></SPAN><BR= ></P></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica,= sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new r= oman, new york, times, serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY= : arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MA= RGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMIL= Y: Arial"><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </P></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 1= 4pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV><EM>"Is the motor r= otor and disc attached FREE to rotate,..?"</EM></DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>= =0A<DIV>No..... what you are not fully appreciating is the fact&n= bsp; THAT CONDITION <STRONG><U>"being locked to the stator"</U></= STRONG> IS THE ONLY EXAMPLE OF SYCRONOUS...Phil, only a motor that ha= s some kind of Mechanical resistance or a ball that has a tether will demon= trate snycronisity..........Ithat requires..no, It DEMANDS a preventio= n of any additional rotataion ....<STRONG><U>That is my point!</U></STRONG>= ........<U><STRONG>of course it is "looked to the stator"</STRONG></U> if = it were not then it would be free to move...........Punch line: = ......... I<STRONG><U>t is only in This demonstration of somthing that abs= olutly cannot move, <EM>( because it is "locked to the stator")</EM> &= nbsp;that we find the syncronisity you keep refering to....</U></STRONG></D= IV>=0A<DIV>So what is demonstrated...... and what can only be ima= gined?</DIV>=0A<DIV>Anything is posible in the mind Phil, ... but what= have we just demonstrated?</DIV>=0A<DIV>We just demonstrated somthing and = it is the only thing we can demonstrate without imagining something that ha= s no meaning outside one's head.....</DIV><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI= ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face= =3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">= From:</SPAN></B> Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN styl= e=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPA= N style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, December 18, 2008 = 7:48:29 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geo= centrism] Re: Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-F= AMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<P>Allen D</P= >=0A<P> </P>=0A<P>Your link is broken. Got another one? </P>=0A<P>&nbs= p;</P>=0A<P>You say ... "Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please add= ress the arguments put before you=85"</P>=0A<P> </P>=0A<P>This is a hi= ghly imperious attitude and somewhat insulting. We are at this point becaus= e it is you who won't address the arguments put to you. This thread is titl= ed "Uranus". It is called that because I asked you where the "Common Point"= for Uranus' "Progressive Radial Orientation" was located which you failed = to address. I asked you about Uranus because I thought it would be easier f= or you to address than the same question related to the Moon which you also= failed to address.</P>=0A<P> </P>=0A<P>You are doing the same to Phil= ip as we speak in relation to the functioning of a model involving motors.<= /P>=0A<P> </P>=0A<P>I am truly being drawn inexorably to the conclusio= n that debate with you is impossible. It will take a crushing demonstration= -- and that's coming soon.</P>=0A<P> </P><FONT face=3Darial>=0A<P>Pau= l D</P>=0A<P> </P></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DAria= l size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMIL= Y: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAM= ILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>= =0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "a= llendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN sty= le=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SP= AN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 18 December, 2008= 3:37:20 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [ge= ocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 borde= r=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop><BR>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-= SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok....Paul your own so= urce demonstrates that was one view point at one time.......my analogy= was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the 1:1 to 2:3 = Gravitational /"tidal lock" <A href=3D"http://courses.nnu.edu/p= h106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm" target=3D_blank rel= =3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20= and%20Venus.htm</A> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SI= ZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><S= PAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">The tethe= r ball example applies to the moon although you are right it would not appl= y to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have the same mot= ions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</SPAN></DIV>= =0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"= > </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A= rial', 'sans-serif'">This does not help your argument or your positions&nbs= p;and you still refuse to address the issue before us....If you took the or= bit away you could still observe a rotation....thus the motions can be isol= ated and separated from each other...therefore we can consider mercury to h= ave a real rotation around a common point that lay within mercury itself...= ....this does not hold true for the moon nor did it hold true for mercury= =92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back when......</SPAN></DIV>= =0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"= > </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A= rial', 'sans-serif'"><BR>Thanks for the mercury correction=85now please add= ress the arguments put before you=85</SPAN></DIV><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 12/18/0= 8, Allen Daves <I><allendaves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR>=0A<BLOCKQ= UOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,2= 55) 2px solid">From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: U= ranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008= , 7:03 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv381951044>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPa= dding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Ok....Paul = your own source demonstrates that was one view point at one time......= .my analogy was based on old idea...and Im happy to correct the 1:1 to= 2:3 Gravitational /"tidal lock" <A href=3D"http://course= s.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20planets/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm" target= =3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://courses.nnu.edu/ph106wj/Terrestrial%20plane= ts/Mercury%20and%20Venus.htm</A> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN sty= le=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"> </SPAN></D= IV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-seri= f'">The tether ball example applies to the moon although you are right it w= ould not apply to mercury since the moon and mercury <U><STRONG>do not have= the same motions</STRONG></U>...which would still support my postion=85.</= SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 's= ans-serif'"> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT= -FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">This does not help your argument or your po= sitions and you still refuse to address the issue before us....If you = took the orbit away you could still observe a rotation....thus the motions = can be isolated and separated from each other...therefore we can consider m= ercury to have a real rotation around a common point that lay within mercur= y itself.......this does not hold true for the moon nor did it hold true fo= r mercury=92s motions that "Science" thought it had way back when......</SP= AN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'san= s-serif'"> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-F= AMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Thanks for the mercury correction=85now pleas= e address the arguments put before you=85</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN> </DIV= >=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'= "></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>--- On <B>Thu, 12/= 18/08, Paul Deema <I><paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV= ></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-= LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx= ><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<= BR>Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 3:24 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv198681= 7547>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 DIV {margin= :0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, h= elvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>OK -- this seems lik= e just another one of those things you refuse to discuss.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbs= p;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Well if you won't discuss it, please provide me with a refe= rence which refutes the description of Mercury's rotation and revolution&nb= sp;found (among many others) here -</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE= dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV> <A href=3D"http://phys= ics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/astronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.H= TM" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>http://physics.fortlewis.edu/astronomy/a= stronomy%20today/chaisson/AT308/HTML/AT30803.HTM</A> </DIV></BLOCKQUOT= E>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>... and which supports your description below= -</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT:= 0px">=0A<DIV>[geocentrism] Uranus<BR>From <A href=3D"mailto:allendaves@all= endaves.com" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow ymailto=3D"mailto:allendaves@al= lendaves.com">allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> Sun Dec 14 23:42:54 2008</DIV>= =0A<DIV>Hint: as with the tether ball and the synchronous orbit of me= rcury.( it keeps the same side facing the sun at all times).......there is = no rotation or rotational force in either.... There is only a force or resi= stance that prevents a rotation, there is no rotation and no cause for a ro= tation...Rotation is prevented not sustained in mercury.... </DIV>=0A<DIV>&= nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"= >Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FON= T-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12p= t; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahom= a size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</S= PAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><= B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxx= g<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 Dece= mber, 2008 7:12:46 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPA= N></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPad= ding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Paul, </SPAN></DI= V>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif= '"></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because= mine get to the very heart of the issue, all you keep trying to do &n= bsp;add "layers of argumentation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but whe= n you get to addressing those I have given you ,then maybe in that day you = will start to see why your arguments will not hold water...they lead to log= ical contradictions and or physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that min= e do not...yours do..mine are logical yours are not..mine are based on what= you can observe......... yours are based on assuming what you can only ima= gine is true...</SPAN><BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <I><a= llendaves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PAD= DING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Fr= om: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geoc= entrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 11:11 AM<BR><BR>= =0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1751651961>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border= =3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:= 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Paul, </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN= style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN> = ;</DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-= serif'">When you get around to addressing mine,=85.. because mine get to th= e very heart of the issue, all you keep trying to do add "layers= of argumentation" that change absolutly nothing=85..but when you get to ad= dressing those I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to s= ee why your arguments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradict= ions and or physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...your= s do..mine are logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observ= e......... yours are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...= </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>= Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I><paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<= BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE= R-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxx= uk><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxx= g<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 10:57 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1754= 845138>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv17516= 51961 #yiv1754845138 DIV {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-S= IZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV= ><FONT size=3D2>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Allen D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT si= ze=3D3></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT size=3D3>The problem here is that y= our definition of rotation and its application is under challenge and you w= ill do <I>anything</I> to avoid discussing the issue -- contempt, prevarica= tion, obfuscation, diversion, pretence that you posed some other question -= - it goes on and on <I>ad nauseam</I>. I -- and others -- labour under the = assumption that you are a reasonable man and so we try to treat with you as= though you are that reasonable man. But what we get is your fanatical defe= nce of your questionable definition. This puts us at a significant dis= advantage because you do not treat us as reasonable people.</FONT></DIV>=0A= <DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV></FONT><FONT size=3D3>To show that I at least will= persevere, state plainly what is the <FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DArial= >question which you have given me and I will address it, if you in turn wil= l address the question of Mercury's rate of orbital angular velocity and it= s rate of rotational angular velocity. Note that standard, accepted definit= ions must be used since you have also resolutely avoided explanation of you= r private definition. Perhaps we can proceed with one question at a time an= d make some progress.</FONT></FONT><BR> </FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV><FO= NT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></D= IV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-se= rif">PS Three days in a row now you have posted the same message twice. Why= so?</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, = sans-serif"><BR><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN st= yle=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <= allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</= SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold"= >Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 6:13:38 PM<BR><B><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus<BR></FONT><= BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>= =0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'A= rial', 'sans-serif'">Paul, Your nonsense is simply using the wor= d "turn" to attempt to claim proof for what constitutes your= definition of it, which is the very thing under consideration..!?!</= SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 's= ans-serif'"> </SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT= -FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Deal with what I have given you ......= ..linguistic acrobatics and diversions from the issue is not doing you= r argument any good....</SPAN></DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>"the c= haracteristics of Mercury's motions" <SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; = FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">the nature of those motions Paul is wha= t we are discussion!? ...Start addressing the issue and quit trying to clai= m your conclusions as the proof and premises for all your arguments?!.. </S= PAN></DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sa= ns-serif'"></SPAN> </DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-= FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Just more nonsense from you ...oh when oh wh= en, will it ever end?......</SPAN><BR><BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PAD= DING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">= =0A<DIV id=3Dyiv515659634>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border= =3D0>=0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FO= NT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style= =3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"></SPAN> </DIV= >=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Paul Deema <I><paul_deema@xxxxxxxx= .uk></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema &= lt;paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: g= eocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 9:55 AM<BR><B= R>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1132363009>=0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #y= iv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #yiv1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 DIV= {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 36pt; FONT-FAMILY: = arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY= : arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV>= <BR>I guess you missed it. Here is the relevant portion again with the key = word highlighted -</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style= =3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=0A<DIV>I have a turntable and bearing/suspensi= on system from long long ago. The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it hor= izontal, <STRONG><FONT color=3D#ff00ff size=3D7>turn</FONT></STRONG> it&nbs= p;CW (looking from above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicini= ty of the radial velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey = and begin to<STRONG><FONT size=3D7> <FONT color=3D#ff00ff>turn</FONT></FONT= ></STRONG> in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? </DIV></BL= OCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV>And the matter of your abysmal ignorance of the characteri= stics of Mercury's motions?????</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>I was savi= ng this for later but I think you've earned it. It's one of your illustrati= ons which I have augmented. Care to comment?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<D= IV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><= BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, s= ans-serif"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new rom= an, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>= =0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@allend= aves.com" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGH= T: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT= -WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, 16 December, 2008 4:31:12 PM<BR><B= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uranus= <BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<TBO= DY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><EM> "guess what? The arrow head= I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!! "...</EM><FONT col= or=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on the gr= ound and don't do anything .... you still get geuss what?..= ..no rotation!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial oreintation = to a common pont that lay within the body itself......</FONT> </DIV>= =0A<DIV><EM>That I believe is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning= (so I don't fall on my donkey) the turntable is still turning! </EM> = <FONT color=3D#0000ff>congragulations, when you stoped you observed th= e inertial effects to <U><STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wai= t,...... it was not rotating earlier....because it was prevented from = rotating by the mechanical friction! Just like the the moon and = mercury are prevented from rotating while in orbit!? In all your exam= ples the synchronisim is the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotat= tion then it would not and cannot be synchronous..</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><FON= T color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Phil sho= ws us a rotation that is prevented and attempts to claim that prevention of= rotation demonstrates a rotation!?....and now you offer us the f= act that somthing did not rotate as evidence that it rotated?!&nb= sp;..........</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>. the diversion here is yours...n= ow answer the chalenges ..your empty, vain accusations and words wear= y me.... </FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12/16/08, Allen Daves <I><allenda= ves@xxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-L= EFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Al= len Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject: Uranus<BR>To: geocentris= m@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:29 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV= id=3Dyiv2076703010>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>= =0A<TBODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><EM> "guess what? The arr= ow head I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!! "...</EM><F= ONT color=3D#0000ff>Guess what Paul, if you take that same aparatus down on= the ground and don't do anything .... you still get geuss = what?....no rotation!......ge we are looking for a progressive radial orein= tation to a common pont that lay within the body itself......Phil shows us = a rotation that is prevented and attempts to claim that prevention of rotat= ion demonstrates a rotation!?....and now you offer us the fact th= at somthing did not rotate as evidence that it rotated?! </F= ONT></DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><EM>That I believ= e is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my d= onkey) the turntable is still turning! </EM> <FONT color=3D#0000ff>con= gragulations, when you stoped you observed the inertial effects to <U>= <STRONG>CAUSE A ROTATION</STRONG></U>...oh but wait,...... it was not rotat= ing earlier....because it was prevented from rotating by the mechanica= l friction! Just like the the moon and mercury are prevented fro= m rotating while in orbit!? In all your examples the synchronisim is = the fact that it is not rotating..if it were rotattion then it would not an= d cannot be synchronous... the diversion here is yours...now answer the cha= lenges ..your empty and vain words weary me.... </FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV> = </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Tue, 12= /16/08, Paul Deema <I><paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx></I></B> wrote:<BR></DI= V>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:= rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Paul Deema <paul_deema@xxxxxxxxxxx><= BR>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Uranus<BR>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Da= te: Tuesday, December 16, 2008, 8:11 AM<BR><BR>=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv1109915657>= =0A<STYLE type=3Dtext/css><!--#yiv381951044 #yiv1986817547 #yiv1751651961 #= yiv1754845138 #yiv515659634 #yiv1132363009 #yiv2076703010 #yiv1109915657 DI= V {margin:0px;}--></STYLE>=0A=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY:= arial, helvetica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Allen D</DIV>=0A<DIV><= BR>I have a turntable and bearing/suspension system from long long ago= . The turntable weighs 2750 g. If I hold it horizontal, turn it CW (lo= oking from above) and wait till it slows to something in the vicinity of th= e radial velocity which I can sustain without falling on my donkey and begi= n to turn in the same direction at the same rate -- guess what? The arrow h= ead I painted on the turntable stays pointing at me!!! That I believe = is synchronism. Even more -- when I stop turning (so I don't fall on my don= key) the turntable is still turning! Whaddaya know!? It can't have read you= r various theses!</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A<DIV>You entreat Philip to an= swer one of your challenges. One of the standard Allen Daves diversionary t= actics -- pretend not to have noticed the solitary challenge to you and rep= ly with many of yours thought up on the spur of the moment. While you are t= hinking on this, note that I have noted your non-response to my highlightin= g of your abysmal ignorance concerning the orbit and rotation of Mercury (n= ote the spelling. Not even American usage can excuse "Murcury"). Can w= e expect that you will correct this oversight?</DIV>=0A<DIV> </DIV>=0A= <DIV><FONT face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul D</FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV= ><BR> </DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helv= etica, sans-serif">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new= roman, new york, times, serif"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>=0A<HR SIZE=3D= 1>=0A<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "allendaves@alle= ndaves.com" <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEI= GHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FO= NT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 15 December, 2008 11:15:09 PM<BR>= <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [geocentrism] Uran= us<BR></FONT><BR>=0A<TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0>=0A<T= BODY>=0A<TR>=0A<TD vAlign=3Dtop>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><STRONG>Phil,= </STRONG></FONT></DIV>=0A<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>=0A<DIV><EM>"we are goin= g around in "circles" getting nowhere..."</EM></DIV>=0A<DIV><FONT color=3D#= 0000ff> </FONT></DIV>=0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in = 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'"><F= ONT color=3D#0000ff>I said this is where the discussion is = "going" <I>.....(pun intended)........</I>but I=92m going to try yet once m= ore to get you to answer even a single challenge of mine to you....I k= eep having to address your challenges or otherwise my words mean = ;nothing so you said... but you don=92t seem to see the point of addre= ssing mine.......ummmm..well here is a "turntable" type example <B><U>see a= ttached and answer!</U></B></FONT></SPAN> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"= MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', = 'sans-serif'"> </SPAN> =0A<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0i= n 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">= <EM> "BUT IT WILL NOT BE SO. IT WILL HAVE TURNED 90 DEGREE= S AWAY FROM YOU.. You can believe me I have actually done this severa= l times."..I know i addressed that many times..."</EM></SPAN> =0A<P class= =3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN styl= e=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">But to get them <= STRONG><U>syncronous</U></STRONG> ..that does not happen does it!....</SPAN= ><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-serif'">Theref= ore, you cannot lay claim to a effect that does not exist when they ar= e syncronized as your rotation..why..becuse if the are syncronised it = does not exist.!? if that persisted during the orbit you would see it and t= hat would be a rotation inaddition to the orbit but to get them to syncroni= ze you must negate that effect!....by the way which way does it rotate= clokwise or counter clockwise?...ummm....<SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </= SPAN>.........<SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial', 'sans-s= erif'"><FONT color=3D#0000ff>as i have pointed out .....it takes a force to= prevent that rotation,........ you still show us no rotation in the same direction of the orbit</FONT></SPAN><SPAN> ......... At best on a goo= d day t</SPAN>his could only be considered to be <U><STRONG>a pr= evention of rotational motion not a demonstration of a rotation!?! </S= TRONG></U></SPAN></FONT><BR><BR>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">=0A<DIV id=3Dyiv21= 0522663> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DI= V><BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia = TV. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs= .yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother&p2=3Dau&p3=3Dtagline" target=3D_= blank rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></T= ABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><= BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV.= <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs.ya= hoo.com/homepageset/?p1=3Dother&p2=3Dau&p3=3Dtagline" target=3D_bla= nk rel=3Dnofollow>Enter now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABL= E></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV><BR>=0A<HR SIZE= =3D1>=0AStart your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. <A href=3D"ht= tp://au.rd.yahoo.com/hppromo/mail/tagline2/*http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepa= geset/?p1=3Dother&p2=3Dau&p3=3Dtagline" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofol= low>Enter now</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></BLOC= KQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AM= ake the switch to the world's best email. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com= /mail/taglines/au/mail/default/*http://au.yahoo.com/y7mail"; target=3D_blank= rel=3Dnofollow>Get Yahoo!7 Mail</A>.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY><= /TABLE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>= =0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0AStay connected to the people that matter most with a sma= rter inbox. <A href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/galaxy/mail/tagline2/*http://= au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox" target=3D_blank rel=3Dnofollow>Take a = look</A>.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></div></body></html> --0-1130472064-1229657688=:95550--