Paul, When you get around to addressing mine,….. because mine get to the very heart of the issue, all you keep trying to do add "layers of argumentation" that change absolutly nothing…..but when you get to addressing those I have given you ,then maybe in that day you will start to see why your arguments will not hold water...they lead to logical contradictions and or physical absurdities .....i demonstrate that mine do not...yours do..mine are logical yours are not..mine are based on what you can observe......... yours are based on assuming what you can only imagine is true...Allen Paul, don't you dare.. Please.. Dont even think of it... This is just one big porky Pie! Worse than an agnostic athiest! But forgivable on the grounds of diminished responsibility. This is my first experience of one in an email. Phil