I belatedly followed this up Gary, so I leave the lower thread intact. I read the words of St. Augustine, and they actually did not support opposition to geocentrism, but rather caution when it comes to scientific matters. Others of the Fathers had opposing views. Augustine ended with a rather odd consideration of a short comment made by Paul in Corinthians concerning a man's (whom Augustine takes to be Paul himself) having been taken up into the third heaven and whether that heaven is the paradise from which Adam fell. It is an interesting piece, but an odd way to end a work on Genesis; but then Augustine always felt free to digress when writing, but he was seldom less interesting for having done so. It must be remembered with respect that the "fathers" only ventured opinions. Not dogma. Almost any subject in the Catholic Encyclopaedia, will usually present one opinion, followed by the opposing opinion on matters of interpretation of natural or undefined religious things. Even St Thomas Aquinaes failed to get it right every time. However well after Augustines time, when Copernicus came on to the scene with the contrary view despite the modern coverup or compromise, all the evidence as far as I can see points to the fact that the highest Authority in the Catholic Church declared it to be DOGMA that the earth was/is immobile, and that to hold any contrary view was heresy. So certain was this believed to be true, that certain factions within theChuch, notable is a certain Fr. Roberts, (who held to the position presented by Galelleo) used it as evidence to destroy the doctrine of Infallibility, and with it of course the entire credibility of the Church... With a big giggle here, I do really hope the fact that the Catholic Church has declared infallibly that the earth IS IMMOBILE, does not make Neville and Jack reverse their positions and become heliocentrists. ....lol. Gary Im going back to that Catholic site to follow them up , the heretics..... Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary L. Shelton" <GaryLShelton@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:29 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Several posts Nick, In response to your request of Dr. Jones, here's a site that I was referred to concerning geosynchronous/stationary satellites. It has as prominent quote on the opening page by St. Augustine. It definitely is pro-rotating earth in the article as the author, Gary Hoge, argues with a geocentrist about the situation with all the various satellites that are out there. http://catholicoutlook.com/gps1.php Sincerely, Gary Shelton [Nick wrote:] will you please cite us to the specific sources so those who are interested can review them. And will you please state your basis for your anti-Catholic claim rather than just lobbing an accusation against the Catholic Church.