[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus.. Nick
- From: "Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:18:19 -0500
Dan,
Suggest you take a look at the Upon This Rock book I cited yesterday if
you want a biblical and historical perspective.
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Dan [mailto:danchap9@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:11 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus.. Nick
Was Peter the Rock???
THE TRUE CHURCH.
Mathew chapter 16 verses 13 to 18:
"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his
disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they
said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others,
Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye
that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the
Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed
art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto
thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That
thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates
of hell shall not prevail against it."
Notice first of all Jesus asks his disciples whom do men say that I the
Son of man am? Because of various prophecies in the Old Testament they
came to the conclusion that Jesus was the fulfilment of one of these. In
verse 15 he makes it personal to his disciples and you can make it
personal to yourselves right now. But whom say ye that I am? He has
already told them who he is by saying I Am which is the name that God
gave to Moses in reply to who shall I say sent me when Moses returned
from Mount Sinai.
Exodus 3:13 to15:
"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of
Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me
unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? What shall I say
unto them And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus
shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you
And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children
of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of
Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name
forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."
So this was God in the flesh standing before them. Simon Peter in verse
16 Simon in Hebrew means he who harkens or listens. And Peter means rock
as in a solid stone. But later on in the verse Jesus addresses Simon
Peter as Simon Barjona. Very interesting as we know names all have
hidden meanings in Hebrew. Here Simon means he who harkens or listens
and Barjona means son of Jona. Jona means dove. The dove is symbolic of
the Holy Spirit. So Jesus is saying here blessed are you who listen to
the Holy Spirit, for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you but my
father in heaven. Now flesh and blood or man has not revealed it to you
means indoctrination of men you s ee man can teach this day and night in
the flesh and get nowhere but when God himself through the Holy Spirit
speaks directly into the innermost being of a person that's Revelation.
John 16verse 13:
" Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into
all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall
hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
That's what we all need because without that the bible is absolutely
meaningless to the carnal mind. Verse 18 is the key to the true
foundation that the Holy Spirit would like to lay in your inner most
being right now if you have the ears to hear. The rock is the revelation
that not man but my father in heaven has shown you. Peter means a stone
or solid rock. But this is not speaking of a solid foundation. Anything
built in this physical realm is only temporal. This is speaking of a
spiritual foundation. The Lord Jesus Christ.
I Corinthians chapter 3 verses 10 to 13:
"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master
builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But
let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation
can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
You cannot build a foundation on faith or prosperity or revival or
healing etc. Who heals who prospers who revives who gives faith?
Hebrews chapter 12 verse 2:
"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the
joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and
is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
And on that revelation I will build my church. The word church means to
"call out or to call forth." It is not a building made with hands. It's
a people called out and set apart by God. Now the doctrines of men will
take this solid rock and put a solid building made with the hands of man
on it. The building is not the church but the building is where the
church meets. Jesus didn't talk about it as a place to go to, but a way
of living in relationship to him and to other followers of his. Asking
us where we go to church is like asking us where we go to be us. How do
we answer that? We are us and where we go there we are. 'Church' is that
kind of word. It doesn't identify a location or an institution or a
denomination. It describes a people and how they relate to each other.
Luke chapter 17 verse 20 and 21:
"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God
should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not
with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! For,
behold, the kingdom of God is within you."
If we lose sight of that, our understanding of the true church a called
out people will be distorted. So with this simple understanding lets
take a closer look at verse 18. Blessed are you who listens to the
spirit of God for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my
father in heaven and on that revelation I will call out my people. And
the gates of hell will not come against it (them).
1 Corinthians chapter 3 verse 10 to 11:
"According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a Wise
master builder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth
thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For
other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus
Christ."
Jesus Christ is the spiritual foundation. Before we build a house in
the natural we have to make sure that the foundation is deep and strong
enough to support it. So it is in the spiritual.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 28:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there
is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Now this is a very interesting verse. If you are a Jew reading this you
have to leave your Jewish religion and move into Christ. If you are a
gentile reading this you have to leave your Gentile religion and move
into Christ. Think about how many Gentile religions there are and how
many false Christ's there are. Not easy if you are deceived by one of
them. If you think that was a bit harsh what about "neither male nor
female." Surely that counts us all out? Consider this, the bible talks
about us being Sons of God and new creatures.< /P>
2 Corinthians chapter 5 verse 17:
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are
passed away; behold, all things are become new."
So the new creature in Christ is not a Jew or a gentile. They are
neither male nor female but we are all one in Christ.
The bible also says that we are God's body on the earth.
There is a counterfeit church out there and in the book of Revelation
she is called a prostitute or Harlot.
Revelation chapter 17 verses 3 to 6:
"So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,
having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple
and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of
her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the
blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great
admiration."
The Beast is the coming One World Government and the Woman is the
counterfeit church. Think about it a prostitute sleeps around committing
adultery and takes all your money then leaves you for dead. A true bride
keeps herself pure and clean for her husband.
2 Corinthians chapter 6 verses 17 to 17:
"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord,
and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a
Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord
Almighty."
Dan.
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Allen,
I've seen what good (or lack thereof) the Bible verse slinging
does on this forum. If you want a Biblical basis for Peter as the rock,
read Denzinger. I'm not going to write a book for you when it's already
been done. Denzinger is a compilation that has already been done. Read
it, rather than just responding that "there is none".
Regards,
Nick.
_____
From: Allen Daves [mailto:allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 4:22 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus.. Nick
I have the history and Scripture.....My point was is that there
is none........ The whole basses for such is on the premise on peter
being the rock that the church was built on.
_____
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