[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
( N) And who were his servants? The TWELVE apostles, right? ?..
( A) Where did you get that??? Matthew 28: 19. "Go therefore and MAKE DISIPLES
of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit, 20. "TEACHING THEM to observe ALL THINGS that I have
commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.''
Amen. ?what did he teach? ?MAKE DICIPLES!. And those disciples do what???..
teach and make more disciples. The Apostles are not with us any longer all we
have are the scriptures wcih is what we are to teach? You have yet to establish
that Paul was not an apostle or that Peter did not recognize Paul as such or
that the writings of mark or anyone else are false, you cannot because they are
the Testimony as to what Jesus taught!? You are still making assertions for
which you have no scripture or proof in so doing you condemn yourself in your
circular reasoning.
( N) Absolute nonsense. ????????.Yeshuwa' states that not one iota of it will
be done away with. Saul states, to save his own skin, that he is a Pharisee -
???????..
(A )You know neither the law nor scripture?. JESUS specifically stated ????..
18. "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or
one tittle will by no means pass from the law TILL ALL WAS FULFILED?. Jesus
fulfilled them! NOTE THE WORD "TILL"?.Bringing in of the new covenant IS the
fulfillment of the law and Prophets! Jeremiah 31:31. "Behold, the days are
coming,'' says the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of
Israel and with the house of Judah 32. "not according to the covenant that I
made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them
out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband
to them,'' says the Lord. 33. "But this is the covenant that I will make with
the house of Israel: After those days, says the Lord, I will put My law in
their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they
shall be My people. 34. "No more shall every man teach his neighbo
r, and
every man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' for they all shall know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' says the Lord. "For I will
forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.''
Daniel 9: 26. "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not
for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city
and the sanctuary. the end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the
war desolations are determined. 27. Then he shall CONFIRM A COVENANT with many
for one week; but in the middle of the week He shall bring AN END TO SACRIFICE
AND OFFERING. and on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the
desolate.'' 15. "Therefore when you see the `abomination of desolation,' spoken
of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place'' (whoever reads, let him
understand), ??.. 21. "For then THERE WILL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, such as has
NOT SINCE THE BEGININGOF THE WORLD until this time, no, NOR EVER SHALL BE??.24.
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and
wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elec
t??(Paul
never claimed to be a Christ)?? 34. "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation
will by no means pass away till all these things are fulfilled.
Daniel 12: 1. "At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands
watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE SUCH
AS NEVER WAS a nation, even to that time. and at that time your people SHALL BE
DELIVERED, every one who is found written in the book.
2. And MANY of those who sleep in the dust of the earth SHALL AWAKE, some to
everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt?????.THERE CAN ONLT BE
ONE GREATEST TRIBULATION! JESUS STATED THAT THAT GENERATION WOULD NOT PASS
UNTILL IT TOOK PLACE! THIS CONESIDES WITH JESUS COMENTS ON THE ABOMINATION OF
DESOLATION THE NEW COVENANT AND THE KINGDOM OF HEVEN! IT ALL TOOK PLACE IN THE
DAYS OF THE 10 KINGS OF THE FOURTH GREAT EMPIRE DAN 7:24-27 AND AGAIN IN DAN
2:42-44??.42. "And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of
clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.????. 44. "And
in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall
never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall
break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
The Covenant that was done away with is found here? law or the covenant Exodus
19:4-9, 24:6-8, Lev 26:15 , Deut 4:12-14:??. ?..IT IS THE OT LAW!!!!
( N) Saul was a murderer from the beginning, he runs off to Rome,
(A) Fisrt of all the quote is found in John 8:44. Ye are of your father the
DEVIL, and the lusts of your father ye will do. HE WAS A MUDERER FROM THE
BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When
he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for HE IS A LIER AND THE FATHER OF
IT, and the father of it?. he specifically ids the DEVil as the one from the
beginning?.You have taken this whole verse out of context and tried to apply it
to Paul.???? ??. Gen 2:17. "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.'' I
marvel that you have absolutely no understanding of who the Murderer even
though he names the DEVIL?read Gneiss IN THE BEGINNING!???The Murder from the
beginning?..The DEVIL?.. he LIED to eve as such they DIED THAT DAY ? there was
only one beginning?. And Jesus came in THE "Last days"
( N) No, Allen, that is your interpretation???.he only way to keep the Hebrew
scriptures consistent, as they must be, since they are from YeHVaH Himself, is
to see that the original law is not "done away with," but continued and
EXTENDED through His son, Yeshuwa'
??.
( A) You have taken things completely out of context or otherwise add context
to scripture that does not exist and failed to address portions of
scripture?..as such the only interpretation is your positions. There is no
interpretation involved in what Jeremiah and Dan and Jesus and Moses all
state?You are in the same boat as the Jews of his day that is after all why
they did not belive in jesus because they did not believe what Moses wrote?
John 5:46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote
of me. ?.?the only way for the scriptures to be consistent is for them to have
been fulfilled just as promised with the Christ and HIS NEW COVENANT!
Interpretation here is yours external of scripture to support by assumptions of
things you know nothing about. NOWHERE dose scripture state it was extended or
continued through Jesus ?..it does specifically state that it would be done
away with!!!.. You do not understand the law or the purpose of the Messiah.
"Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:My replies are in red:
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
( A) You can?t sow tares or anything else until after JESUS came with THE
message.. Correct, which is what Yeshuwa' informs us ... that is THE sequence
of events ? Read the verse again Mat 13:37. "The FIELD is the WORLD, the GOOD
SEEDS are the SONS OF THE KINGDOM, but the TARES are the SONS of the WICKED
ONE. 39 "The ENEMY WHO SOWED them is the DEVIL...... 40. "Therefore as the
tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this
age. Correct ?????.the tares are sons of the wicked on and the wheat are the
sons of the kingdom.. Who do you think are the People in the kingdom? The SONS
of the wicked one are the tares the field is the world and the good seed are
the sons of the Kingdom which includes every one that WAS?.IS and WILL BE in
the Kingdom those who have been saved via faith in the Gospel of Christ given
to his servants to preach,?. And who were his servants? The TWELVE apostles,
right? otherwise why preach about the kingdom of God if it is
poi
ntless which is effectively what your comment implies!??What do you mean
Pointless?? the sowing is not a one time event ..This is the whole point!
Sowing is what is going on presently and has since JESUS came, that is what he
commissioned his Apostles to do!!! MARK 4:3 which is further context to his
sowing parable? Mark is not an apostle and his "gospel" is corrupt. And it was
is and will be a ongoing process that will continue until such time that Jesus
Christ puts an end to everything?. The wheat is collected into the barns and
the shaft will be burned with fire unquenchable! Mat 3:12????. Yes, but the
evil one came AND SOWED HIS TARES IN THE FIELD ALONG WITH THE WHEAT THAT HAD
JUST BEEN SOWED BY YESHUWA'. AT THAT TIME AND THE TWO HAVE BEEN GROWING
TOGETHER EVER SINCE.
There is no disparity between Paul?s teachings and Jesus in fact they
completely agree, Absolute nonsense. Saul claims to be our "father" - Yeshuwa'
states that only YeHVaH is our Father. Saul claims that the old law is done
away with - Yeshuwa' states that not one iota of it will be done away with.
Saul states, to save his own skin, that he is a Pharisee - Yeshuwa' states that
anyone who seeks to save his life will lose it, and to beware the yeast of the
Pharisees. Saul was a murderer from the beginning, he runs off to Rome, before
the REAL apostles, who could not abide him, have him put to death. In Rome he
is treated like a VIP and given his own guard (the forerunner of the Vatican
Guard) etc., etc. ... except for those who twist scripture and Paul?s words to
their own destruction! And there are a lot of people who do that with such
issues as divorce and remarriage!
( N) At that time Yeshuwa' said to his disciples: "Do not think that I am come
to annul the Torah or the Prophets, but to fulfil. Truly I say to you that
until heaven and earth pass away not one letter or dot shall be abolished from
the Torah or the Prophets, until all will be fulfilled." (Mt. 5:17-18, Original
Hebrew.)
( A) Neville you do not understand the law or the covenant Exodus 19:4-9,
24:6-8, Lev 26:15 , Deut 4:12-14:??. The Prophets prophesied that the old
covenant of the LAW would be REPLACED!!!?This is not an annulment IT ISthe
fulfillment because that is what was Promised!
...
No, Allen, that is your interpretation. The only way to keep the Hebrew
scriptures consistent, as they must be, since they are from YeHVaH Himself, is
to see that the original law is not "done away with," but continued and
EXTENDED through His son, Yeshuwa'.
The Covenant that was done away with is found here??..IT IS THE OT LAW!!!!
You are listening to the devil, not to Elohiym's only begotten son, for he
makes it absolutely clear that he has NOT come to do away with anything. As I
stated above:
At that time Yeshuwa' said to his disciples: "Do not think that I am come to
annul the Torah or the Prophets, but to fulfil. Truly I say to you that until
heaven and earth pass away not one letter or dot shall be abolished from the
Torah or the Prophets, until all will be fulfilled." (Mt. 5:17-18, Original
Hebrew.)
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