[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:07:48 -0700 (PDT)
( S) It is possible using Saul?s own writing to prove that he taught a
different gospel to that of Yeshuwa?, which makes him the evil one. ???
Saul is the evil one who sows the bad seed whilst the master is sleeping,
Yeshuwa? says (John 8:44b KJV) "? He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a
lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
( A)These scriptures do not mention or refer to Paul directly or indirectly
except in your imagination, it does specifically mention the Devil. You did not
quote the whole verse?..John 8:44. Ye are of your father the DEVIL, and the
lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a
lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.I could
just as well assume that the topic of discussion here is YOU if I applied your
logic and lack of context to it, because you accuse a man based on assumptions
and false witness, Just as they did Jesus at his trial. You are twisting the
scriptures to your own destruction, by your own lies! Peter stated as much
which you maintain that was not written by Peter, however, you have no proof of
this and have yet to establish that as a fact it is therefore only your
assertions. You have no understanding of the Gospel of Christ, if yo
u did
then you would know that all the apostles were given the command to go teach
ALL things Whatsoever I have commanded you. Mat 28:20? but only the scripture
we have available to us tells us these things which does not include writings
from all the apostles?. You are therefore left with faith in what is provided
which can be traced to the apostles or faith in what you think did or did not
happen based on your assumptions. Paul never denied Jesus Christ?? . 1John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
( S) (Acts 8:1a KJV) "And Saul was consenting unto his death."
(Acts 8:3a KJV) "As for Saul, he made havock of the church,"
(Acts 9:26 KJV) "And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join
himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not
that he was a disciple."
( A) You failed to continue the Conversion or the rest of ch 9 thus taking
everything you affirm out of context ???..Acts 9:27. But Barnabas took him, and
brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in
the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at
Damascus in the name of Jesus. 28. And he was with them coming in and going out
at Jerusalem. 29. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and
disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. 30. Which when
the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to
Tarsus. 31. Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and
Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the
comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied????...If you accept as true the
verses you quote in acts? then you must accept the other verses in acts
otherwise you are entirely inconstant with your handling. Thus your testim
ony is
false!
Yeshuwa? said: (Mat 23:9 KJV) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for
one is your Father, which is in heaven."
The evil one (Saul) said blatantly to the contrary that he is your father: (1
Cor 4:15 KJV) "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have
ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the
gospel."
(A )He dose not call himself the father you are reading into his words. He
specifically states that he BEGOTTEN them. Look at the definition/ synonym for
the word?Begotten or beget? To cause to exist or occur; PRODUCE: synonyms :
beget, breed, bring forth, create, develop, engender, form, fructify, generate,
invent, make, produce, propagate, provide, reproduce, yield This is entirely
constant the thought or concept that it was he that converted them or produced
fruit . You assumed too much and thus make false witness. The Key is BEGOTTEN
and For IN CHRIST and THROUGH the Gospel.. Mat 7:15. Beware of false prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. ????. 17. Even so every good tree
bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A
good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good
fruit
is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall
know them. 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied
in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. You have no understanding of the Gospel
of Christ?if you did you would realize that Paul?s letters are that gospel.
Where is Thomas epistle where is Peter?s instructions where are the
instructions for the Gospel? You don?t know and can not prove otherwise, only
make vain empty assertions with circular logic.
Yeshuwa? said: (Mat 16:11 KJV) "How is it that ye do not understand that I
spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"
The coward Saul said in his own words to escape death:
( A) You assert and accuse but you have yet to establish anything as fact,
Scripture nowhere calls Paul a coward, this is thus your imagination otherwise
what are you basing this on?? (Acts 23:6a KJV) "But when Paul perceived that
the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the
council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee:"??.. Mat
7:35. But wisdom is justified of all her children. ??He did not deny Jesus
Chrst in so doing. The Gospel of Christ was his whole argument before this
group!
(S )Yeshuwa? said: (John 7:19a KJV) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet
none of you keepeth the law?"
Saul made the lying boast as being sinless: (Phil 3:6 KJV) "Concerning zeal,
persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law,
blameless."
( A) Paul did not say he was Sinless he stated ; touching the righteousness
which is in the law, BLAMELESS?look up the definition/synonyms for this word?
Matthew 1:19. Then Joseph her husband, being a JUST man,????. 12:37. For by thy
words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned???.
13:49. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and
sever the wicked from among the JUST,.. if you understood the law and
scripture, you would not have condemned the guiltless?Romans 3:23. For all have
sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his
grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: ..........The Pharisee
here is YOU!??Matthew 12:7. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have
mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.justPart of
Speech: adjective 1Definition: fairSynonyms: aloof, blameless, condign,
conscientious, decent, dependable, dispassionate, due, equal,
equitable, ethical, even-handed, fair-minded, good, honest, honorable,
impartial, lawful, nondiscriminatory, objective, pure, reliable, right,
righteous, rightful, rigid, scrupulous, strict, tried, true, trustworthy,
unbiased, uncolored, upright, virtuous
Paul was a hypocrite for he wrote: (Gal 5:2 KJV) "Behold, I Paul say unto you,
that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
And yet hypocritically Saul circumcised Timothy: (Acts 16:3 KJV) "Him would
Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the
Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a
Greek."
You either have no understanding or willfully fail to address the context of
these two scriptures??. Gal 5: 1. Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith
Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of
bondage?(context is justification by the law) 4. Christ is become of no effect
unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from
grace??.. GAL were trying to be justified in the law !?..IN Acts 16:3?..BECAUSE
OF the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was
a Greek??. Paul and timothy were Romans 12:18. If it be possible, as much as
lieth in you, live peaceably with all men? Neither paul nor Timothy were trying
to justify themselves under the law! The Galatians were trying to do that. That
is the whole context of the book of Galatians??????1Chorinthians 7:19.
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the
commandments of God. Romans 3:30. Seeing it is one God, which sha
ll
justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(S) Yeshuwa? said: (John 6:27 KJV) ????..
Saul said: (2 Th 3:8-12 KJV)?????
( A)Your comments here make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You failed to
address the context for both scriptures in John 6: 26-35. Jesus and Paul are
talking about two entirely different things. Jesus did not State that it is
wrong to receive payment for work or that you should not work, in fact Jesus
states. Matthew 10:7. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at
hand. 8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils:
freely ye have received, freely give. 9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor
brass in your purses, 10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats,
neither shoes, nor yet staves: FOR THE WORKMAN IS WORTHY OF HIS MEAT. ?Mat16:
27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
and then he shall reward every man ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS. ? And Paul did not
state that the purpose of your work should be to get meat ?The context of Pauls
remarks are ??. 11. For we hear that there are some which walk
among
you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12. Now them that are
such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they
work, and eat their own bread. Jesus remarks are about spirituality and the
value of ones meat, Paul?s remarks are about conduct for eating physical
meat??.let him eat his own meat!
( S) I feel I have more than adequately proved that Saul is a liar and a
deceiver.
( A) You have proved that you have assumed much based on nothing, been
inconstant in handling the text, avoided the context of scriptures, and
demonstrated yourself as a false witness and teacher. I have shown your
reasoning to be inconstant and based on circular logic. Further, I have and
continue to quote the following scripture for which you have not nor can you
refute without circular logic and assumptions, which therefore pertain to all
those who hold these positions?. You do so to your destruction, your blood be
upon your own head, I have not shyed away from exposing your Twisting and
unlearned distortion of scripture...........2 Peter 3:5. And account that the
longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16. As also in
all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things
hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as
they d
o also
the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17. Ye therefore, beloved,
seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with
the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.18. But grow in grace,
and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
Galatians 1:6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but
there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But
though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that
which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1 Corinthians 4:6. And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred
to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think
of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one
against another. 7. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast
thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou
glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
2 Peter 2: 1. ??. there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall
bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring
upon themselves swift destruction. 2. And many shall follow their pernicious
ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3. And
through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:
whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth
not????? 4. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to
hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto
judgment;????.. 10. But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of
uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they
are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11. Whereas angels, which are
greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before
the Lord???? 12. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and
destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall
utterly perish in their own corruption; 13. And shall receive the reward of
unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots
they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while
they feast with you;???????15. Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone
astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of
unrighteousness; ????? 17. These are wells without water, clouds that are
carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18.
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the
lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from
them who live in error. 19. While they promise them liberty, they themselves
are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is
he brought in bondage. 20. For if after they have escaped the poll
utions
of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they
are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them
than the beginning. 21. For it had been better for them not to have known the
way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy
commandment delivered unto them.22. But it is happened unto them according to
the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that
was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Philippians 3:9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which
is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness
which is of God by faith:
Steven Jones <stavro_jones@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear All,
It is possible using Saul?s own writing to prove that he taught a different
gospel to that of Yeshuwa?, which makes him the evil one. I urge all who are
skeptical to read through the following thoroughly, with a copy of your own
Bible with you.
Firstly, I would like to highlight the parable of the wheat and the tares
which, incidentally can only be found in Matthew (one of the true twelve
apostles).
(Mat 13:24-30 KJV) "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom
of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went
his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the
tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou
sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt
thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat
with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say
to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Later in verse 36:
(Mat 13:36-43 KJV) "Then Yeshuwa? sent the multitude away, and went into the
house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of
the tares of the field.
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the
tares are the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world;
and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in
the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his
kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing
of teeth.
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
Saul is the evil one who sows the bad seed whilst the master is sleeping,
Yeshuwa? says (John 8:44b KJV) "? He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a
lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
(Acts 8:1a KJV) "And Saul was consenting unto his death."
(Acts 8:3a KJV) "As for Saul, he made havock of the church,"
(Acts 9:26 KJV) "And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join
himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not
that he was a disciple."
Yeshuwa? said: (Mat 23:9 KJV) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for
one is your Father, which is in heaven."
The evil one (Saul) said blatantly to the contrary that he is your father: (1
Cor 4:15 KJV) "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have
ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the
gospel."
Yeshuwa? said: (Mat 16:11 KJV) "How is it that ye do not understand that I
spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"
The coward Saul said in his own words to escape death: (Acts 23:6a KJV) "But
when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees,
he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a
Pharisee:"
Yeshuwa? said: (John 7:19a KJV) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none
of you keepeth the law?"
Saul made the lying boast as being sinless: (Phil 3:6 KJV) "Concerning zeal,
persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law,
blameless."
Paul was a hypocrite for he wrote: (Gal 5:2 KJV) "Behold, I Paul say unto you,
that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
And yet hypocritically Saul circumcised Timothy: (Acts 16:3 KJV) "Him would
Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the
Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a
Greek."
Yeshuwa? said: (John 6:27 KJV) "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but
for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall
give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."
Saul said: (2 Th 3:8-12 KJV) "Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought;
but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be
chargeable to any of you:
Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to
follow us.
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not
work, neither should he eat.
For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at
all, but are busybodies.
Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that
with quietness they work, and eat their own bread."
I feel I have more than adaquatly proved that Saul is a liar and a deciever, I
urge you all to reject the evil one who claims to be your father in 1 Cor 4:15
and become not children of the devil.
(John 8:44 KJV) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father
ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his
own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Steven Jones.
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