[geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
- From: "Carl Felland" <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:58:43 -0500
Hi,
Just thought I'd let Scott Nelson comment on 2 Peter 3. He attempts to deal
with it as it is.
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/yahshua's.htm
Whenever Paul is called into question, someone inevitably brings up Peter and
what he said about Paul's letters that supposedly refers to them as Scripture.
This is assuming that the book of 2Peter is authentic. * (see footnote at end
of chapter) I give the book the benefit of the doubt. The passage reads:
".and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation as also our
beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are
some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist
to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures." 2Peter
3:15,16 NKJV
Before we get to the subject of Yahshua's prophecy to Peter, there are several
things in this quote that should be pointed out. First, notice that there is
only one issue clearly stated by Peter in which we know he is in agreement with
Paul... the patience in persecution issue. Second, the "things hard to
understand" are not identified in this short passage, much less outlined as to
which position is correct and which is the twisted version.* Third, it is
interesting to note that in spite of the fact that Peter has obviously read
many of Paul's epistles and is therefore fully aware of Paul claiming to be an
apostle, Peter does not call him a fellow apostle, but instead calls him
"brother". Fourth, claiming that Peter was endorsing Paul's letters, as the
Holy Word of God is a bit of a stretch. Though the Greek word for "Scripture"
does in fact mean "Holy Writings", and the Greek word for "rest" means "the
rest of any number or class under consideration". When Peter said, "as they
do", he wasn't doing anything more than comparing similarities in the way some
people deal with both Paul's writings and the Holy Word of God. If we are
concerning ourselves with only this passage, just exactly what Peter thinks of
Paul's writings is somewhat up for grabs.*
* When this passage is quoted, it is seldom continued on to the next verse
where Peter indicates which doctrine, in his view, is the "twisted" version;
"You therefore, beloved, since you know these things beforehand, beware
lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error
of the law-less**. 2Peter 3:17
** Some translations read "wicked". The Greek word literally means
"lawless".
It must be admitted though that Peter is in fact being considerate and speaking
favorably of Paul. And this is in spite of the fact that whenever Paul makes
mention of Peter, Peter is never left in a positive light! Peter is obviously
taking a stand against the law-less doctrine that many are deriving from Paul's
letters, but he continues to speak quite favorably of Paul. He apparently
refuses to admit to himself or believe that Paul was in fact preaching that the
Law had been superceded. In this, Peter would have been differing with James,
or at best, attempting to smooth over the situation.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: j a
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:40 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Looks like everybody's after you Neville.
"Niemann, Nicholas K." <NNiemann@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Neville,
That's really convenient isn't it. Just treat the portions of Scripture
you don't agree with as forgeries. Very handy. Especially for a fallible guy.
Seems like St. Peter anticipated you (and told you the result of your folly
as well).
Regards,
Nick.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dr. Neville Jones [mailto:ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:51 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Saul of Tarsus
Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
... Your arguments are unlearned, twisted and void of any scripture or
logic... I have already demostrated this time and time again... You obviously
are not interested in the truth, You like some interpritaion of man that cannot
withstand scriptural scrutiny...... I have answered every single question and
addressed every single issue you cannot see becuse you refuse to see ..
The following was posted to the forum by me on 11.07.2005 at 19:05. My
apologies if I have missed your reply:
Yeshuwa' was asked a direct question: What is the greatest commandment? Is
this true?
Yeshuwa' answers that direct question directly. Is this true?
Saul teaches a different answer, which you claim is because he is teaching
"The law of Christ" (although these are your words and do not appear in the
Hebrew or in the Greek). Is this true?
If Saul is teaching "the law of Christ," then he is a liar, because
Yeshuwa' himself does not teach what Saul claims. Is this true?
If Saul is not teaching "the law of Christ," then exactly what is he
teaching?
Neville.
P.S. Nick - Steven and I reject 1 and 2 Peter as being forgeries, to answer
your query.
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