[geocentrism] Re: Regner concedes?

Me in blue with attachments.....
  hope this helps...

j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
    Dr. Jones & Allen,
   
  I appreciate your efforts, and I do wish to be back on board, however, the 
more I look at it the further I am getting from accepting the Star trails 
proof. 
   
  It seems to me that the proof, if correct, would not only demolish HC, but 
would also demolish the possibility of that type of motion, IE... No planet 
could rotate on an axis that is different from it's orbital axis. I think you 
should look at the diagram ..One is a model of the, earth/ sun, solar system 
shows both rotations about the two axis.......there is the suns axis that the 
earth orbits and the earths axis that the earth rotates on ....Two axis of 
rotation, they face two different directions...... If the nightly circle does 
not move through the sky during the year, how can it trace out a larger circle? 
But the proof of the Nightly circle alone (anybodys proof) shows that the 
nightly circle will always be in the exact same place,Right as long as you take 
a photo graph of a helicoter blade it will always be in rotaion..it does not 
mater if you take  5 photos of it in 5 sec or 365 days it will still be in the 
same place doing the same rotaion. this is the same whting
 with the nightl star trails..you will allways see them annualy or nightly 
cause it is a photo grapgh of the same thing taken at differnt times thats 
all....it will always be in the same place doing the same thing..rotating...... 
so the motion must not be possible.   But since other planets move with that 
motion (or am I wrong), it must be possible and therfore something is wrong 
with the proof. Break that logic Allen! ;-)
  The nigtly star trails will all ways be visable year around and every night 
it is the exact same photo graph of the exact same thing.....However...it is 
the stars distance from the/ any axis of rotation that determines the size of 
the startrail..this is true of the nightly as well.  polaris is close to the 
axis of nightly rotaion and thus wil have a small circle where other stars that 
are further from the nightl axis will have larger star trails....Now..there is 
another axis of rotaion that takes place over a year ( not just a helicopter 
blade (stars) rotation but now the whole helicopter starts to move in circles 
[about the sun])   since polaris is further from that axis or rotaion polaris 
will produce a larger star trail...it must becuse it is the distance of a star 
from the axis that determins the size of star trails even in the nightly ...the 
reason polaris is now further from the other axis of rotaion is becuse of the 
angle of the axis not the stright line( base
 line) distance)..a axis sitting on a differnt angle cannot have all the same 
stars as another axis that is facing a differnt direction...it is the stars 
distance from the axis that determines the star trails size, if you have two 
differnt axis facing in different directions then the stars cannot be the same 
distance from both axis at the same time. thus, since HC has two axis of 
rotation in differnt directions and the stars cannot all be the same distance 
away from any axis of rotataion all at the same time each star has two diferent 
paths of two differnt sizes becuse each star is closer to one axis and further 
from the other.....
   
   
  Now, the above was just a thought that occured to me while I was getting the 
new drawings ready that you asked for. Hopefully these are easier to look at 
and, since there are only 3, less confusing and time consuming. The first is 
about the nighty star trail and the camera, the second and third are about the 
annual star trail and the camera and why the annual does not work just like the 
nightly. 
   
  JA....
  
j a <ja_777_aj@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
    Dr. Jones, My replies in red,
   
  I do not understand your drawings. You have not changed the rotation axis 
from one scenario to the other, so the box is just as far away from the axis in 
both cases. Correct, but does not matter. What I changed was the way the camera 
moves around the axis, to demontrate the difference between a camera recording 
nightly trails and a camera recording annual trails.

In diagrams 1, 2 and 3, your camera should not be diverging onto the axis, but 
be parallel with it. As Allen has said, it does not matter what angle the 
camera is pointed at, as long as you leave it still, it will record a star 
trail. The difference between different camera angles will determine where the 
axis is in the picture.

Just like you have in 4, 5 and 6, but here you have not changed the axis! If 
you change the axis so as to point towards the box and make the rotor blades 
orthogonal to that axis, then what is the difference between the mechanism of 
1, 2 and 3, from 4, 5 and 6? I believe I would still record the same event, 
just the center of rotation would appear in a different place on the film. The 
difference between the two (1,2,3 & 4,5,6)(I wish I had thought to name these 
better) is the difference between the stationary camera rotating with the axis 
which will record a star trail and the not stationary camera rotating against 
the axis which will not record a star trail.

Perhaps you could redo the diagrams and see. I'll see what I can do, to make it 
clearer.



      
 
      Allen,
   
  Allow me to demonstrate. Actually, your mention of the helicopter is what got 
my confused questioning to gel into something I could better understand, so I 
have used the helicopter as my device. I found this much easier to visualize 
and draw the motions. The Helicopters body will represent whatever axis we are 
considering. The box on the ground beside the helicopter is any star you want 
to consider a star trail for. The rotor is either the baseline of earths radius 
or its orbit depending on whether you are talking about the nightly or annual 
trail. The Camera on the end of the rotor the camera sitting on a tripod 
anywhere on the earth.
   
  Drawings 1, 2, 3 are of the setup of my system to simulate the nightly star 
circle. The only difference between 1,2&3 is that I am increasing the length of 
the rotor axis, so that you can see where the circle produced is heading as the 
distance begins to negate the baseline (rotor length). Drawing 7 shows the 
positions of the camera as it is swung around the axis. Drawing 9 shows the 
results (the trail formed by taking a timelapse photo through one revolution in 
each of the three drawings). The circle is progressively moving to center on 
the axis of rotation. Exactly what we see in the sky and what your model 
predicts.
   
  Drawings 4, 5, 6 are of the setup of my system to simulate the annual star 
circle. The only difference between 4,5&6 is that I am increasing the length of 
the rotor axis, so that you can see where the circle produced is heading as the 
distance becomes more important than the baseline (rotor length). Drawing 7 
shows the positions of the camera as it is swung around the axis. Drawing 8 
shows the results (the trail formed by taking a timelapse photo through one 
revolution in each of the three drawings). Both circles (the axis circle and 
the box circle) are decreasing in size and will diapear into a dot with enough 
distance. Exactly what we see in the sky, but not what you are predicting.
   
  So what is different in my model to yours? If your camera takes pictures 24 
hours apart, you are not taking into consideration that the camera has not 
rotated with the axis of rotation you are trying to record, and as my model 
shows, that is all the difference needed to make the annual trails disapear.
   
  This is not a proof of HC, only a disproof of the disproof, which are not the 
same.
   
  JA...


  
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