[geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
- From: <marc-veilleux@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "Geocentric" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:08:12 -0400
Allen,
I also have to scroll sideways your email; this is not practical.
Marc V.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 21 août 2008 17:35
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
I have another post to make here latter this evening but let see if we can get
this fixed...i dont know why it would be doing that mine comes out ok ...how
about anyone else?
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: philip madsen <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 2:08 PM
Allen I canna read your mail, scrolling sideways, the lines stretch all the
way to my neighbours house.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:34 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
Peter,
Part A.
What you are addressing is a problem for the idea of Christ return as some
future event not the past?! What you miss is that scripture and Jesus do not
define the "end of the world as you currently know it" judgment and the
resurection to all take pace at the same time at Christ return. .."then cometh
the end when"...."for he must riegn untill he has put all enimies under His
feet"...."the last enemy is death"......Here is the punch line......We know
from revelation ch 20 that Christ Reighn last no less than 1000 years!!! there
are folks alive on the earth for at least 1000 years after Christ
return!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....In fact, the futurist nonsense misses the fact that
there are 2 resurections of the dead not one!. Only the Godly take part in the
first Resurection and only the wicked take part in the second...On top of that
there is atleast but not limited to a 1000 years between the start of thoes two
different Resurections!!.....
the sequence is 1.Christ returns first 2. then the frist resurection ( judment
begins with the ouse of God.... they live and reign) that last at least 1000
years...in fact there are people still alive on the earth after that 1000
years...which is a 1000 years after Christ returns 3. the "rest of the dead"
who are not Godly they are the follks left ...they are judged...by christ and
the saints they are cast into the lake of fire 4. then death and hell are cast
into the lake of fire.............the futurist miss the whole sequence as well
as the time line for Christ 2nd comming Period!........No, what you address is
not a problem for Christ return in the first century, However, to argue that
Christ did not come in the first century poses multiple terminal problems for
those who say he has not returned but will supposedly come at sometime in the
future!!!
Part B.
As for the term "generation": you missed it on two counts.....
1. The L&P outline a date..ref the disscussion on 666 from the street and the
wall Dan 70 weks vison ..this will yeild the date of AD 70 and it is the only
date you can arive at using the numbers in the text consistently. This proof (
a mathematical certainty) is indipendent of the next point...... see attached
and explination below..
2. Christ specificaly identifies folks who would not see physical death untill
he came back...unless of course you argue that Christ 2nd reterun with His holy
angels and gathering his saints takes place on multiple occasions??....multiple
2nd commings??......ummmm.. No Jesus ment it exactly the way He said it the
problem is folks dont belive HIM...
These two points are independent of each other. The problem is for those who
say Jesus and the L&P did not know what they were talking about because they do
not understand scripture.
The Attached charts I sent you demonstrate and even prove:
1. The Persian kings (found in the text) chronology only works one way and most
donʼt get it. The AD/BC date line is not only correct ( Denise the little was
right, his critics donʼt have a clue!) No other construct would be consistent
with the text itself ..This fact is mathematically demonstrated independent of
how anyone feels about Astronomy, Daniel, Eschatology or anything else for that
matter. It covers all possibilities, shows only one consistent within the times
listed in the text itself independent but especialy if you take broad but
generaly accepted historical facts into consideration.
2 The middle of the week in Daniel 9 was accomplished in AD 70 (still half a
week left "unto the consummation") Ad 70 was not the end of everything!..it was
only the middle of Daniel's last week. The last week is 7 years. The gentiles
trampled the city for the remainder 3 1/2 years of 1260 days..."even unto the
consummation"... "your redemption draweth nigh"....This the whole point
to:..Time( 70weeks) Times(62&7weeks); and half a time (1 week) the confirmation
was for the whole week but in the middle of that week was the end to sacrifice
and offering...."unto the consumation
3. 666 refers to the only man that was also a beast found in the biblical text
let him who has wisdom count 666 years.......This is the number of years the
heathen are allowed to rule "in the land" of God. AD 70 the physical kingdom is
destroyed in favor of a completely Spiritual kingdom with no flesh and blood in
it to corrupt it. Flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4. The redemption work "Put an end to sin"; "make reconciliation for
iniquity"(Dan 9 & Luke 21 et al) of God was not accomplished until after the
physical temple was destroyed. Christ could not enter into the holy of holies
while the first physical temple was standing. The physical temple was destroyed
in AD 70 only then could our high priest (after the order of Melchisedec not
Arron!) enter and finishing the reconciliation and receptive work done on the
cross....Even most preterist, particularly reformed theological ones donʼt get
it!!!
Hebrews 9:1. Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine
service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2. For there was a tabernacle made; the
first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is
called the sanctuary. 3. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is
called the Holiest of all; 4. Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the
covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had
manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5. And
over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now
speak particularly. 6. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests
went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without
blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8. The
Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet
made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9. Which was a
figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and
sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining
to the conscience; 10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers
washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater
and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this
building; 12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood
he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for
us. 13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer
sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14. How
much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered
himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the
living God? 15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament,
that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were
under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of
eternal inheritance. 16. For where a testament is, there must also of
necessity be the death of the testator. 17. For a testament is of force after
men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law,
he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and
hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20. Saying, This is
the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21. Moreover he
sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without
shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary that the
patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the
heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24. For Christ
is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of
the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for
us:25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth
into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26. For then must he
often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end
of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28.
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look
for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Chirst appears without sin the second time because here in Ch 9 it just told
you that it is only after Christ goes itno the holy of holies (only after the
physical temple was destroyed) that the redemption for the sins under the first
covenant could be fully accomplished at that time when He would come again.
If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in their life
time ...then there is no hope of anything!
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 3:31 AM
Trouble with this view of Christs return in 70 ad, is that some rather
remarkable things happen after his 1000 year rule has ended, things such as
death and hell being thrown in the lake of fire, well we still have death dont
we?, I also do not see the tent of God being with mankind at present, etc etc,
in fact it looks very much to me as if the Devil is still running the world.
When Jesus talked about a "generation," he had just been talking about the sign
of his prescence, and said the generation that saw these signs, would still be
alive to see his second coming, not the generation that saw his first coming.
Pete Charlton
----- Original Message -----
From: Bernie Brauer
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:14 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19
Allen,
Kevin Craig has this:
http://members.aol.com/VFTprayer/heaven/antichrist.htm
Bernie
2008/8/20 <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
With respect to your last two post, the general thrust being we should take
scripture literally. However, as you well know different people even the ones
who hold that view only carry it in so far as their philosophies or doctrine
allow. In the same way that some folks look at that verse and say see.. the sun
moves..I look at Jesus remarks and say...see Jesus' 2nd coming took place just
as he described in that generation, in the lifetime of those he talked with. In
fact If Jesus did not come then what in the world is peoples faith in why are
they Christian at all. If Christ did not do what he said he would do almost
2000 years ago what in the world makes folks think Christ will one day do it?!
If His comments were not the literal truth of the matter, then how do you know
how to "interpret the truth" that without first knowing what the truth is?!
This is the same kind of questions the atheist and agnostics pose to those who
do not take scripture at face value when it plainly states the sun moves and
the earth. Folks missed Christ first coming looking for a physical king..they
missed his second coming because......They are looking for a physical
king..imagine that!....even after He specifically spoke to that effect
otherwise.....What in the world are people looking for?!...Many are going to
wake up one day and realize, after it is too late, God meant what he said and
said exactly what he meant...."interpretations" were worthless.....the sun not
the earth moves...and Christ did come exactly when he said he would to judge
the world and that is what is taking place now.......they are being slain by
the word of his mouth, when the first resurrection is complete then they too
will be resurrected but with a much different fate, ...damnation ....because
they "received not the love of the truth" nor did they " love His appearing"
........
--- On Wed, 8/20/08, Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Bernie Brauer <bbrauer777@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Psalm 19
To: "Geocentrism/RealityReviewed" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wednesday, August 20, 2008, 8:37 AM
"Psalm 19 gives us an awesome look at the transforming power of God and his
word. Verses 1-6 declare the glory of God's creation and the fact the heavens
and skies are enduring evidence of God's existence and creative power."
1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his
handywork.
2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of
the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong
man to run a race.
6His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends
of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."
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