[geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
- From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:44:55 +1000
Against scoffers denying the second coming of Christ. He declares the sudden
dissolution of this world and exhorts to holiness of life.
1 Behold this second epistle I write to you, my dearly beloved, in which, I
stir up by way of admonition your sincere mind: 2 That you may be mindful of
those words which I told you before from the holy prophet and of your apostles,
of the precepts of the Lord and Saviour. 3 Knowing this first: That in the last
days there shall come deceitful scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4
Saying: Where is his promise or his coming? For since the time that the fathers
slept, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they are wilfully ignorant of: That the heavens were before, and the
earth out of water and through water, consisting by the word of God: 6 Whereby
the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in
store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of the
ungodly men.
8 But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord
is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for
your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to
penance, 10 But the day of the Lord shall come as a thief, in which the heavens
shall pass away with great violence and the elements shall be melted with heat
and the earth and the works which are in it shall be burnt up.
11 Seeing then that all these things are to be dissolved, what manner of people
ought you to be in holy conversation and godliness? 12 Looking for and hasting
unto the coming of the day of the Lord, by which the heavens being on fire
shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with the burning heat?
13 But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to his promises, in
which justice dwelleth.
Nothing complicated here.
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
Pete,
Good questions & comments;
attachments are ziped web pages for size sake....you can view them as a
web page or you can also right clik on them and "open with" them with MS EXCELL
and print them out with legal paper the margins are already set..... I may try
to put them in pdf i just have not had the time yet.....the "resurection
charts" are the missing file from the last post......the attachments of the
last post can be printed on regular paper if you need to...they are very
importaint....for understanding even proveing the timing of redemption.
are you able to condense your views? condensing a view..
yes...demonstrating, not merely asserting a position (priceless) from the text
requires “the big questions” with a detailed study and a considerably longer
version..I’ll make it as small as I can…( for "everything" else there is "a
wind of Doctrine":-)
Are you saying Christs Presence started in 70Ad and that the 1000 years
ended in 1070 AD therefore? I will use AD70 for simplicity sake I just say
this to draw attention to this detail, AD 70 is not the fulfillment of the
L&P the end of the war was, in AD 74. The mist (Ad 70 3.5 years into the war)
of one week (7 years the war lasted) sacrifice and offering were ended...the
covenant is confirmed for the whole week or 7 years of the war ..hence " unto
the end of the war"......"unto the consummation"....
It is important to understand that since there are good and bad folk on
the earth before during and after a thousand years of Christ Reign, ( note: rev
20 is discussing the 1000 years saints reigning with Christ, not 1000 years of
Christ reigning) therefore as will all rule and power just because you are king
today does not mean everything is instantly the way you "decree" it. the point
it takes time to organize your empire. this should be no great mystery for
Christ Himself is to reign until he puts all enemies under his feet...well:
1. If the saints rein with Christ for a 1000 years then Christ himself
would have to be reigning during that same time as well....otherwise it would
be hard to reign with someone who is not reining.
2. Christ does not instantaneously “get his way” ( accomplish all
enemies under his feet) the instant He “took office”
The point: The resurrections and the judgment and Reign of Christ are
all processes at work through time not instantaneous events in time!
History demonstrates that for a 1000 years Christianity ruled supreme
on the earth. Were there bad people yes..where there bad people in the church
itself..yes..…was there false doctrines…yes….did everybody understand
everything alike ..no….but this is the kicker…There are far more "bad people",
war and false doctrine these days.....ummmChrist with saints reing a 1000 years
then satan is released to compas the camp of the saints.. for 1000 years the
Christan "spirit" ruled ...........Christ Kingdom is a spiritual kingdom those
that are resurected have a spiritual Body ..... The spirit of Christ and the
saints..DOMINATED much of the physical world. In fact John in the book of
Revelation is specifically writing to the 7 churches in Asia…..and guess what
….Those 7 churches were in fact part of one of the largest and a most
wealthiest empires…it was known as the Byzantium empire…..oh yea the church and
"Christianity" ruled supreme there and for a 1000 years…in fact, It was not
even until the 1300’s that Christianity was ruthlessly begun to be stamped out
in China. After the thousand years Satan was to be released…and guess what.. we
can see it.... it was called:
Renaissance -The humanistic revival of classical art, architecture,
literature, and learning that originated in Italy in the 14th century and later
spread throughout Europe.
It took us out of the “dark ages” where "religion" ( particularly
Christianity) and “superstition” reigned supreme….ummmm
Again Folks looking for a good time here on earth after Christ 2nd
coming missed his whole messages completely…….Set your minds on things
above”…..The “dark ages” were “so dark” because the world as a whole was not as
interested in the things of this world..there was a lot more mediation devotion
and prayer …then Came the Renaissance that cured us all and brought us into the
light of the modern thinking art, literature , Copernicanisim and
Darwinism….the death of God …..”he will go out and compass the camp of the
saints”.. The emphasis in the world changed from the hereafter to the here and
now, that is what the renaissance was all about.
I have to go to work so cannot look up the scripture where it says at
the end of the 1000 years when death has been brought to nothing, Jesus hands
the restored Creation back to his Father.
Here it is....
1Corinthinans 15: 23. But every man in his own order: Christ the
firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24. Then cometh
the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25. For he
must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26. The last enemy
that shall be destroyed is death.
NOTE: Death is not cast into the lake of fire untill
A. after the thousand years...
B. After satan has compased the camp of the saints...(amount of time
not specified)
Revelation 20:7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall
be loosed out of his prison, 8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which
are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together
to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9. And they went up
on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and
the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented
day and night for ever and ever. 11. And I saw a great white throne, and him
that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there
was found no place for them. 12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand
before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is
the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were
written in the books, according to their works. 13. And the sea gave up the
dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in
them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14. And death
and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15. And
whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of
fire.
Text specifically states there is time after the thousand years before
death itself is cast into the lake of fire.. It does not tell us how much time
after the thousand years .The text only tells us about the first 1000 years of
the first resurrection. Nor does the text state that the first resurrection is
limited to last only a 1000 years…It does not tell us how much time the first
or the second resurrection take place over. However, it does demonstrate they
take place over time frame not instant in time or all at one time!
Now, when I look around me in the world, I do not see a world free of
sin and death, now ruled by God.
A. Of course the the world is not free of sin and death, this one
never will be the case until all the evil folks are dead!...Which will be and
is even after the 1000 years,sometime much much latter, after the beginning of
Christ reign. There are good and bad folk still living on the earth. That fact
is irrespective of a past, present or future coming?!
See Attached "copy of the first resurection" for more detail..
Thus to point out that evil and death are still in the world is
moot?!..More precisely it is a false concept about the condition of the earth
after Christ comes and reigns.
1. There are folks (good & bad) on the earth 1000 years later after
Christ has begun to reign.
2.We inherit a spiritual inheritance and a spiritual body not a
physical posterity or earth. this is the whole point to Christ comments my
kingdom is not of this world....flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom....
...This is what the Jewish leaders missed today and then...the lion
lays down with the lamb..in the land of God not the land of flesh and blood.
Gods land is spiritual not physical.
see attachment "the land" for more detail..
B. God’s rule is not one of Peace and safety here on the physical earth
it is one of Christ slaying men with the Sowrd & spirit of His mouth, Which is
the word of God. God is doing exactly what He said He would do…..bring a sword
not peace on the earth. Matthew 10:34..all This stuff you guys keep attributing
to some “anti Christ” is in fact Christ doing what He said He would do…..?!
Satan is compassing the camp of the saints on the physical earth, one day
(sometime but it is never stated how much latter but sometime latter, after
that 1000 years) fire will come down and destroy him …He will be case into the
lake of Fire. After the dead in Christ are risen first 1Thessalonians 4:16.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of
the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first:
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up?
and with what body do they come? 36. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not
quickened, except it die: 37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that
body that shall be
then the “rest of the dead” will be resurrected unto damnation…
…then after all that, (1000 years and satan compasing the camp of the
saints) and only then, will death and hell itself be cast into the lake of
fire………The futurist folk keep wanting to mix everything up and just put it all
together at one time?!
I Corinthians 15: 25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
In fact when you say
"If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in
their life time ...then there is no hope of anything!"
I would say the opposite, that what has Jesus 1000 reign achieved when
we see the world today? Proactively putting his enimies under his feet, and
slaying the world with the words of his mouth because they do not belive and
thus they will have their part in the second resurection after God has
completed dividing his sheep from the goats...beside did not you read...
Matthew 10:34. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came
not to send peace, but a sword. 35. For I am come to set a man at variance
against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in
law against her mother in law.
36. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37. He that
loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth
son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38. And he that taketh not
his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39. He that findeth
his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
A future coming will also bring a future hope that Jesus will put
things right.
Put things right, where?! on earth?! The kingdom is spiritual Flesh and
blood cannot inherit it or even enter into it...
We do not inherit eternal life untill after we die! We must all die
phsycial everyerone will!..The difference is we have a hope of eternal glory
but only after we die physicaly. Then we are "caught up to meet Him in the
clouds there we shall ever be". (1Thessalonians 4:17) Who cares about putting
things right in the world?!!!! The glory of the kindgom is not and cannot be
seen by folks that live and see things through the eyes of flesh and
blood....the wold of the dead is far larger then the world of the living...
..Chirst is Judgeing the nations, destorying the world of men, not
building it up or making it a better world ....?!..for what?!.... the world of
the spirit is far larger and glorius then the world of the physical
world...Those who have been resurected with their new perfected bodies dont
care about the things of this world they are gloryfied and perfected unto God
......but just in case your wondering.. Those who have not been resurected and
are dead are quite aware of this for they can see their Glory and the Gloried
ones every one looks down on them with hissing for they are a perpetual
curse.....
Yea ..LOL.....He is going to "put things right" alright, just like He
"put things right" with the Land (kingdom of Isreal)...cleanse the land of all
the sinners by destroying the land....."put things right" by destorying the
physical world that men love so much......" Colossians 3:2 Set your affections
on things above not on things on the earth"
NOTE: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18...
Christ is not comming back to set foot on the earth and Our home is not
on the earth our home is above the earth ...this world is a place to be ruled,
dominated and destroyed, not loved!........
If Christ did not come and do what he said He would do when He & the
L&P said he would .. then.there is absolutly nothing and no reason to expect or
hope for anything from some "Jesus Dude"
--- On Thu, 8/21/08, PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: PETER CHARLTON <peter.nambo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Psalm 19/ Christ 2nd Return
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 12:06 PM
Thanks for this Allen, yes, please do send me the missing file.
This will all take some reading and studying, are you able to
condense your views?
Are you saying Christs Presence started in 70Ad and that the 1000
years ended in 1070 AD therefore?
When did all this happen :- 7 Now as soon as the thousand years have
been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to
mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to
gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the
sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp
of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and
devoured them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the
lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet
[already were.
I have to go to work so cannot look up the scripture where it says at
the end of the 1000 years when death has been brought to nothing, Jesus hands
the restored Creation back to his Father.
Now, when I look around me in the world, I do not see a world free of
sin and death, now ruled by God.
In fact when you say
If christ did not Come when he said He would in that generation in
their life time ...then there is no hope of anything!
I would say the opposite, that what has Jesus 1000 reign achieved
when we see the world today?
A future coming will also bring a future hope that Jesus will put
things right.
Pete
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