Philip, Mike's view of the cosmos is that everything is held by the invisible ropes of Newtonian gravity. The Bible actually states that the Moon, etc., is set in the firmament. What holds an object where it is, is not relevant until later in the discussion. The main thing at the moment is still the concensus over which way round things are really moving and coming to an understanding of why a Biblical cosmos does not fit the acentric paradigm. Also, by the way, private postings between yourself and Mike should not be posted onto this forum. Neville. Philip <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: To Mikes criticism below of Neville's approach I respond. Mike you are correct , in your standard orbital mechanics.. I sort of thought of it.. But my lateral mind, will look for alternatives., simply because I have a more compulsive reason for doing so. Even though you may not be prepared to look for an alternative physical reason to explain the physical observations that support conventional explanations of them, surely you cannot deny us, if you have the true open mind of the scientist, the right to think laterally; to seek such an alternative. The proper way to refute our "fantasies" if you will, is to follow the line of approach that I posted in questioning Roberts theory of the plenum, (or my aether) where in I asked him to explain what would happen with a polar orbit. You haveto admit, that NO ONE has launched a polar orbit from the geographical pole, which just might prove something.which an equatorial launch cannot. Can you not recognise that your stubborn adhesion to scientific convention is just as stubborn as The Biblical geocentrists? I expect more from an avowed athiest. When I was there, or at least a doubter, I just loved Startreks transporter "Beam me up Scottie" You will never ever invent a matter transporter, with your attitude, but someone else, another Faraday might. Likewise, you will die, never knowing if maybe perhaps the Bible was right, and that you had a spiritual soul, and that there was a God.. after all.. Maybe too late then, if you were not a perfect person in every other respect. Philip. --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!