Jack, The answer to your question is NO! .......I think you may have missed the other comment...which is specific to what is under discussion.. .....http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cookie_setting_error.html the axis of 2d rotation (not 2d objects, only 2d rotation by definition) is always perpendicular to the xy plane...!? that is geometry Phil not Allen...... Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear Philip, Paul and Allen, "Dictionary.com....Axis: .A straight line about which a body or geometric object rotates or may be conceived to rotate. or the center around which something rotates..." Philip said: Allen, where is the 90 degrees mentioned in the latter.. But I do accept both your statements combined as follows and slightly modified to accurately complete it. . I have not denied anything above anywhere. I'm saying: I've been largely ignoring this monumental debate because it is getting you all nowhere relative to each other. There is so much confusion and repetition of multiple e-mails that I'm content to wait until either Reger or someone else on his side of the astronomy fence, decides to either enlighten us all, or concede. In the meantime is it possible for an object to rotate, without any additional forces being applied, not to rotate about an axis which is at 90deg. to its plane of rotation? Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: philip madsen To: geocentrism list Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 7:56 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Magnitude of scale Allen said, "The axis is determined by the path of rotation at 90 degrees to it...period!.....,." . then later quotes this dictionary,