[geocentrism] Re: Integrity in science
- From: Regner Trampedach <art@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:54:47 +1100
Jack,
Astronomers know that we haven't seen any Oort cloud objects yet
- and we are not hiding that fact. Many laymen (including journalists)
skip the qualifiers, but that doesn't change the science behind - just
other peoples description of it.
Also, we haven't yet been able to come up with a better theory for
the long period comets - and as scientists we can't just ignore them.
Furthermore, observations of protoplanetary disks around other stars
have a component that looks very much like what we have inferred about
our own Oort cloud.
The mass estimate is based one the statistics of long period comets
- it is not grabbed out of thin air - and most likely there are also
error-bars on that estimate, quantifying how uncertain the estimate is.
Think of it as a Gallup poll.
The creationist assertion that there is no evidence for the Oort cloud
is obviously wrong, since you cited Oort's three observations.
I don't know what work they refer to, but I can see a number of other
possibilities - And the presence of comets has never been used to measure
the age of the Solar system. Material from a comet, on the other hand,
could, I believe, be used for dating the Solar system.
Regner
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Quoting Jack Lewis <jack.lewis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> Me in Red Paul
> Jack L
>
> Paul Deema wrote:
>
> SNIP
> >
> > My guess is that if the universe ended at the Oort Cloud, eff would
> > still equal em-ae and the Earth would still circle the Sun
> >
> > This from a non-creationist website. I have highlighted the words
> > that show that the Oort Cloud is pure conjecture but given the status
> > of being a fact (no maybe about it) in other websites.
> >
> > In 1950 Jan Oort noticed that
> >
> > 1. no comet has been observed with an orbit that indicates that it
> > came from interstellar space,
> > 2. there is a strong tendency for aphelia of long period comet
> > orbits to lie at a distance of about 50,000 AU, and
> > 3. there is no preferential direction from which comets come.
> >
> > >From this he proposed that comets reside in a vast cloud at the outer
> > reaches of the solar system. This has come to be known as the Oort
> > Cloud. The statistics imply that it may contain as many as a trillion
> > (1e12) comets. Unfortunately, since the individual comets are so small
> > and at such large distances, we have no direct evidence about the Oort
> > Cloud.
> >
> > The Oort Cloud may account for a significant fraction of the mass of
> > the solar system, perhaps as much or even more than Jupiter. (This is
> > highly speculative, however; we don't know how many comets there are
> > out there nor how big they are.)
> >
> > In 2004, the discovery of an object known as 2003 VB12 "Sedna" was
> > announced. Its orbit is intermediate between the Kuiper Belt and what
> > was previously thought to be the inner part of the Oort Cloud. Perhaps
> > this object is the first of a new class of "inner Oort Cloud" objects.
> >
> > This is from a creationist website.
> >
> > Comets are continually being lost through decay, collisions with
> > planets, and ejections from the solar system. If the solar system were
> > billions of years old, then all comets would have long ago ceased to
> > exist if they were not continually being replaced. Thus to sustain
> > long-age thinking, a way is needed to â??resupplyâ?? the solar system with
>
> > comets from time to time.
> >
> > For years, evolutionary astronomers have believed that long-period
> > comets (those with orbital periods of more than 200 years) come from
> > the so-called â??Oort cloudâ??. The Oort cloud supposedly contains
> > billions of comet nuclei orbiting the sun thousands of times further
> > from it than the Earth. Astronomers think that the gravity of an
> > occasional passing star or other object, or possibly a galactic tide,
> > causes comets from the Oort cloud to fall into the inner solar system.
> > This mechanism supposedly supplies the influx of comets needed to
> > overcome the conclusion that the solar system is young.
> >
> > There are problems with the Oort cloud, the greatest being that there
> > is absolutely no evidence that it even exists!1 However, a recent
> > study has revealed a new problem.2 Evolutionary theories of the origin
> > of the solar system state that comet nuclei came from material left
> > over from the formation of the planets. According to the theory, this
> > icy material was sent out to the Oort cloud in the outer reaches of
> > the solar system by the gravity of the newly formed planets. All of
> > the earlier studies ignored collisions between the comet nuclei during
> > this process.
> >
> > This new study has considered these collisions and has found that most
> > of the comets would have been destroyed by the collisions. Thus,
> > instead of having a combined mass of perhaps 40 Earths, the Oort cloud
> > should have at most the mass of about a single Earth. It is doubtful
> > that this is enough mass to account for the comets that we see. The
> > researchers postulate â??escape valvesâ??3 that could supply up to 3.5
> > Earth masses, but this is still â??low compared to recent estimates of
> > the mass of the Oort cloudâ??. They go on to â??speculate that a distant
> > source region for Oort cloud cometsâ??3 could resolve some other
> > problems [emphasis added].
> >
> > Of course, if the solar system is much younger than most astronomers
> > think, then there is no need for the Oort comet cloud. Since it cannot
> > be detected, the Oort cloud is not a scientific concept. This is not
> > bad science, but non-science masquerading as science. The existence of
> > comets is good evidence that the solar system is only a few thousand
> > years old, just as the recent-creation model suggests.4
> >
>
> > orld's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now
> >
>
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>
>
>
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