Neil, are you a BA'er also? If so, who are you there? I think I am beginning to see this figure eight now, though it is a tough one to visualize. I assume the whole figure eight is visible in the northern hemisphere due to the distance involved to the satellite? If the orbits of geosynchronous satellites are not 100% stable, as you said, are they 100% stable for geostationary satellites? Why wouldn't the same earth density forces, as well as the moon attraction you mentioned, affect geostationary satellites? What is so special about them that they can withstand these forces? Also, if a geosynchronous satellite is doing a figure eight out there, is it not requisite upon a receiving instrument to be moving in a like manner? (This no doubt touches on what Dr. Jones and Philip were discussing.) What different purposes would exist for the two different types of satellites? Why would we launch a "figure eight-ing" satellite instead of an LEO one? Isn't the tracking problematic in the same kind of way, only the former is much slower and the LEO much quicker? I guess in my suspicious moments I think things like the government is placing these satellites doing figure eights just so they can't be followed as easily. Like, perhaps the whole figure eight is to scramble Howard Stern? uh....ha. Referring back to my first question, is there ever a time when a geosynchronous satellite would disappear from view down low, or up too high? Also, do these geosynchronous satellites (or geostationary ones for that matter) "slip" in their orbits about the earth? That is, would we see it at the top of the eight at, say, noon one day and then 1 pm the next? Is this type of orbit EVER observed? The satellite would still follow the figure eight but just not in the same time as the earth's rotation. Thank you for your aid, Sincerely, Gary Shelton