Philip, What i think you fail to fully appreciate is that all properties even the definitions of the ones you address have no intrinsic meaning eternal of a relationship to something else.... context is everything.....in the same way that atmospheric pressure, generally, can not be perceived it is the "natural state". It is only by showing a relationships to some other value(s) that it has any meaning and those values only have any meaning in context with others....just because fold did not perceive the pressure of air 600 years ago does not mean it had no pressure it only means that a meaningful relationship had not yet been established.....finding the right "meaningful" relationships is the whole point of these discussion on the aether’s pressure.....we don’t have those or a meaningful relationship yet.....THAT’S WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.... you cant say that since it does not conform to known relationships that it therfore has no pressure anymore then it would have been correct for those folk 600 yeas ago, who knew what pressure was to state that the air has no pressure...why they knew about air/ breathing...it’s the same thing, and you are attempting in essence to argue that since there is no meaningfull understanding, thus proof that there is nothing meaningful to understand....? ----- Original Message ---- From: philip madsen <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:51:56 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Earth gravity static or time dependent? In physics, density is mass m per unit volume V—how heavy something is compared to its size. A small, heavy object, such as a rock or a lump of lead, is denser than a lighter object of the same size or a larger object of the same weight, such as pieces of cork or foam. But Allen you should clarify you were being disambiguous. Not only disambiguous, but non specifically out of all the denseness below you chose just one plank of it , if you can pardon the pun. More below. Density (disambiguation) Density and dense usually refer to a measure of how much of some entity is "in" a fixed amount of other space. Types of density include: In physics: Density, mass per volume Area density, mass over a (two-dimensional) area Linear density, mass over a (one-dimensional) line Planck density, Planck mass per Planck length Specific gravity, a dimmensionless ratio based on the density of a substance to the density of water Relative density, a measure of density in comparison to the density of something else Vapour density, a relative density used for gases Current density, the ratio of electric current to area Charge density, the electric charge per volume Energy density, potential energy per unit volume or mass, depending on context Force density, force per unit volume Information density, the amount of information compared to many units Optical density, the absorbance of an element In mathematics: Dense set and nowhere dense set in topology Schnirelmann density in number theory Natural density (also called asymptotic density) in number theory Lebesgue density in measure theory Probability density function, a function which maps probabilities across the real line and whose integral is 1 Density estimation is the construction of an estimate of a probability density function Kernel density estimation, used in statistics to estimate a probability density function of a random variable Density in graph theory, the fraction of possible edges that exist in a graph Dense order in order theory Dense-in-itself, in geometry, is a set that contains no isolated points In forcing (mathematics), a subset D of a forcing notion (P, ≤ ) is called dense in P if for any p in P there is d in D with d≤p In other scientific fields: Population density, population per unit area Computer storage density, bits (how computers store information) over an amount of area or volume Density can also refer to: Spiritual density, states of being for various planes of existence Density (band), an Italian progressive rock band Why should we listen to Plank????who sounds like a man from the big bang , The God in which Max Planck believed was an almighty, all-knowing, benevolent but unintelligible God that permeated everything, manifest by symbols, including physical laws. His view may have been motivated by an opposition like Einstein's and Schrödinger's against the positivist, statistical subjective universe of the quantum mechanicists Bohr, Heisenberg and others. Planck was interested in truth and Universe beyond observation, and so objected against atheism as an obsession with symbols. Planck regarded the scientist as a man of imagination and faith, "faith" interpreted as being similar to "having a working hypothesis". For example the causality principle isn't true or false, it is an act of faith. Thereby Planck may have indicated a view that points toward Imre Lakatos' research programs process descriptions, where falsification is mostly tolerable, in faith of its future removal. [5] [hide] v • d • ePlanck's natural units Base Planck unitsPlanck time · Planck length · Planck mass · Planck charge · Planck temperature Derived Planck unitsPlanck energy · Planck force · Planck power · Planck density · Planck angular frequency · Planck pressure · Planck current · Planck voltage · Planck impedance · Planck momentum The Planck density is the unit of density, denoted by ρP, in the system of natural units known as Planck units.where: mP is the Planck mass lP is the Planck length c is the speed of light in a vacuum is Dirac's constant G is the gravitational constant This is a unit which is very large, about equivalent to 1023 solar masses squeezed into the space of a single atomic nucleus. At one unit of Planck time after the Big Bang, the mass density of the universe is thought to have been approximately one unit of Planck density. Come on Allen need I go further with this nonsense.. Paul will immediately find in Planck the source of our evolution energy... I will respond to the other points which sounded more real later Philip. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Daves To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 1:46 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Earth gravity static or time dependent? The Aether most certainly has density!....... First i was alluding to the theoretical construct based on the calculation of plank "absolutes"....this is a reasonable "starting point"...if for no other reason then there is no other viable alternative... Second as for the density of the Aether it most certainly does have a density this is proven via the Aspeden effect and gravity slingshots tides..ect....the correct illustration would be that of air..... what is the density of the air that you all move though in our own houses?..you can't perceived it cause it is the "natural state" but it is real and can be measured but only measured in terms that have meaning such as how it correspond to the density of water or mercury...... Now the key think to keep in mind is the fact that "density" is a specific descriptive term for ordinary and observable effects that do have meaning to an observer......... I point this out because we can described the density of the Aether not just in theoretical calculations of plank absolutes but also in terms of observable effects such as the aether’’s ability to have mass in motion impart force to the aether and then the aether in turn to impart that energy back to a mass...Aspeden effect, gyroscopic effect..grav slingshots...in the short term any calculations will be general estimates but still useful descriptions....... The Aether most certainly has density, because it has physical affects on physical objects and physical objects have a effect on it......... think about that....the only difference is in our ability to perceive the "natural state" of our own environment..like a fish in water or a man walking in is own house..the issue we have to address is not if it has density but rather what is the best way of relating/describing or understanding that density ..or what is the best demonstrable and knowable frame of reference from which to objectively measure it by...i only point out the based on the bibles description of a firmament and planks calculations it is a good starting point but i think can be refined based on the other observations i mentioned ................................... The key is in the efficiency of the "force" transfer between aether and "ordinary mass" and visa versa....that can give us a useful measurement and thus a "frame of reference" by putting some properties into context of the ordinary..... we can then extrapolate/ measure against that its some of its other properties....it won’t be perfect but it will be useful......... Neville Jones <njones@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Allen, What do you take the density of the aether to be? Neville www.GeocentricUniverse.com -----Original Message----- From: allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:56:19 -0700 (PDT) To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Earth gravity static or time dependent? I leaving shortly for a short trip ill be back late Thursday or Friday Lord willing. However to address your question in short ..we can discuss this in more detail when I get back …..based on the apparent interaction (transfer of energy/force efficiency) of aether and mass and visa vers ie Aseden effect…gravitational slingshots and such…taking into account the presumed “densityâ€� of the aether,… the "known" mass and mass distribution patterns observable within the universe a few Ukn variables such as the size of the Aether(universe) ….I suggest not only is a vibration with a active and reactive matix the most logical and demons ratable solution but it is the frequency necessary to produce the attached ……just like something you can produce on a sound board with sand the only difference is a 3 matrix (aether) rather then just the 2d of a sound board…… ----- Original Message ---- From: philip madsen <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 5:31:29 PM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Earth gravity static or time dependent? Allen I know that in the past I have tended to disagree if not just avoid your vibrational universe. This may have been a communication problem of my own. I do not like calling Light electromagnetic waves having the same theoretical structure as radio for instance. Can anyone demonstrate an electrical current at light frequencies for example, as they can do with radio frequencies? I think not. Light might be corpuscular, radio is not. Light might be photons, radio is not. I say "might" because I doubt it. Hence, likewise vibration. I do not like the use of the term vibration in any context other than as something physically felt.. pressure sound. I would never call a 60hz electrical current flow a vibration, except by way of analogy. eg the electrons vibrate longitudinally in the conductor. But on re reading your words I get the impression you use the term for all types of cyclic variations, in anything, be it pressure, mechanical, electrical etc. Perhaps you are calling any single cycle sinisoidal or non sinisoidal, event that has a frequency of one year or a hundred years, a vibration...I wouldn't, but if you are doing so, then perhaps I can agree with you as regards the aether having a frequency. Nay, perhaps even several different cyclic events as effects on matter, due to interveneing forces in matter itself. Having cleared that up, I can now see what you are driving at, re the aether pressure (gravity) "squeezing" the water of the oceans towards the moon because the moon interferes with this aetheric "pressure" on its side of the earth. But I see this effect without need of any "vibration". If you are saying the aether itself has a basic frequency of "vibration" , what structure does this cycle have, and what is its frequency? Why cannot this gravity pressure be a static constant in a given location, just as is and for the same reason water pressure in a pond, is static. This water pressure phenomenon is transmitted via the molecular/nuclear "vibrations" , but the vibrations are not the cause of the strength of the pressure. Likewise perhaps you might agree is the aether.. I can get that. But you are assuming what all do, and which may be incorrect, nay most probably incorrect, that the aether has the properties of a material substance. Back to Harold Aspden... the aether is a simple neutral state of electrical charges which without intervening environment , demonstrate no external material measurable effect. . eg when we make an electrical current flow, we disturb these charges balance, and create a magnetic force stress. Philip. ... 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