[geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
- From: Carl Felland <cfelland@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:58:41 -0600
Allen,
At the risk of remaining off the subject of geocentrism I'd like to
share my thoughts on the three days and three nights in the heart of the
earth.
I was recently worshipping with a group that was held together by the
understanding that Messiah was in the grave for a full 72 hours.
However, this belief has been challenged. I find no direct correlation
in the Bible of the sign of Jonah and Messiah being dead in the grave.
In Jewish thought the heart of the earth is Jerusalem. Cross
referencing this term in the Scriptures can show someone on the surface,
as in a ship in the midst of the sea (Pro 30:19). Jonah was alive
inside the whale although he felt like he was in Sheol. I think Messiah
was prophetically telling the length of his ministry on earth as being
three full years, from his initial cleansing of the temple in the first
spring of his ministry to his final cleansing of the temple and his
passion three years later. I had always wondered about Messiah telling
his mother that his time had not come at the wedding in Cana of Galilee.
His baptism in the fall was a preparation for the ministry that would
begin the following spring. Others guess that the sign of Jonah
referred to a three day period that encompassed the time that Messiah
gave himself over into man's control. One the other side, Messiah
clearly and repeatedly states that he was going to rise from the dead on
the third day. I have found that fitting the 72 hours was forced and
necessitated taking pieces from each Gospel rather than taking each
Gospel account at face value. Apparent problems such as the women
preparing spices before the Sabbath and buying spices after the Sabbath
are understood as being separate events. Matthew 28: 1 had iced the 72
hour belief for me; now I look at it given the weight of evidence on the
other side and have to reconsider my previous understanding.
Carl
Allen Daves wrote:
>You could have counted it that way, However, it plainly states "three days"
>and "three nights" in the heart of .... The
> key to understanding this is to relize that although you could have reconed
> the time as Carl indicated here, if ther was no additional information.
> Howerver this verse is plainly qualifiying what is ment. as for the passover
> though it was a particular day the whole week was considered part of the
> event, and festivities akin to the way that we celibrate 12 days of
> Christmas, at lest we used to or "thanksgiving week".
>
>Allen
>
>
>>>earth.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Robert Bennett <robert.bennett@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>Cheryl,
>
>There are two things needed to compare our present method of measuring time
>with the Biblical Jews:
>
>The day was - and still is - measured from sundown to sundown - cf. the
>first 6 days.
>Any part of a day was considered a day - no division into hours, etc.
>
>>From 3 PM Friday to 7 AM Sunday we would term 40 hours, or less than 2 days.
>The Jews would reckon this as 3 days.
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Cheryl
>>Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:26 AM
>>To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>
>>
>>Allen -- I forgot about that verse. Do you have a way to harmonize this
>>with the passages Carl cites? I'm sure they can be, but I don't
>>know how to
>>do it. Cheryl
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Allen Daves"
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:10 AM
>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Matthew 12: 39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and
>>>adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be
>>>given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
>>>40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
>>>
>>>
>>whale's belly; so
>>
>>
>>>shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the
>>>earth.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Carl -- I agree with you that Jesus was not in the grave for three days
>>>but
>>>rather a day or less.
>>>
>>>We celebrated Seder (sp?) at our church this year on Thursday before
>>>Easter.
>>>It was the first time I'd ever gone to one, and I loved it. We had no
>>>choice but to celebrate it on the wrong date because it would make no
>>>sense
>>>to celebrate it after the Easter date ordained by, I guess, the Roman
>>>Catholics. Cheryl
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Carl Felland"
>>>To:
>>>Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:38 PM
>>>Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Calendar query
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Neville,
>>>>
>>>>The short answer is "No."
>>>>
>>>>My longer response is two-fold. First, that your thesis would
>>>>necessitate the understanding that the New Moon is the Full Moon and
>>>>second, that the Gospels do not show Messiah in the grave for
>>>>
>>>>
>>three days.
>>
>>
>>>>Passover and the first day of Unleavened Bread fall in the
>>>>
>>>>
>>middle of the
>>
>>
>>>>month on the 14th and 15th, respectively. Now, there is a very small
>>>>group of people who argue that the New Moon is the Full Moon, which may
>>>>allow your thesis. I can't see this as a possibility because of history
>>>>and logic. History, as in dictionary definitions, shows the New Moon
>>>>being firstly astonomical new moon and secondly a crescent moon.
>>>>Logically, the two primary divisions of the moon's appearance
>>>>
>>>>
>>from earth
>>
>>
>>>>are when it is visible and when it is not visible. The period when it
>>>>is not visible is that unique period of time each month that I argue is
>>>>a "month-end/beginning" holiday. The Full Moon is still important, but
>>>>as the second sabbath of the month and being at the beginning of the
>>>>pilgramage feasts of Unleavened Bread in the first month and
>>>>
>>>>
>>Tabernacles
>>
>>
>>>>in the seventh month.
>>>>
>>>>Concerning the Gospel accounts... In Mark 15: 42 "And now when the even
>>>>was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the
>>>>sabbath," we see Messiah's death and burial on the preparation, the day
>>>>before the sabbath. Exodus 16:5 shows that the day before the weekly
>>>>sabbath is a preparation. The next reference to sabbath is Mark 16: 1
>>>>"And when the sabbath was past..." Logically, this would be the same
>>>>sabbath that was referred to in Mark 15: 42. Compare also Luke 23: 54-
>>>>24: 1.
>>>>
>>>>In Matthew 27: 62 "Now the next day, that followed the day of the
>>>>preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together
>>>>
>>>>
>>unto Pilate,"
>>
>>
>>>>we see again the preparation and based on the above evidence the next
>>>>day would be the sabbath. Continuing on to Matthew 28: 1 again we have
>>>>the women going to the tomb after the sabbath on the first day of the
>>>>week. [An alternately punctuated Matthew 27: 66 - Matthew 28: 1 as "So
>>>>they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and
>>>>
>>>>
>>setting a
>>
>>
>>>>watch in the end of the sabbath. As it began to dawn toward the first
>>>>[day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the
>>>>sepulchre." may better hamonize the Gospels.] In John 19:31 "The Jews
>>>>therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not
>>>>remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an
>>>>high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that]
>>>>they might be taken away." The preparation was for a weekly sabbath
>>>>day, that also happened to be an high day. In John 19: 42- 20: 1 again
>>>>we see no gaps in the sequence of 1st day) preparation where death and
>>>>burial occurred (Passover), 2nd day) sabbath in the grave (First day of
>>>>Unleavened Bread), and 3rd day) first day of the week with resurrection
>>>>(Wave Sheath offering). This sequence fits the resurrection on the
>>>>third day as in Luke 24:46 "And said unto them, Thus it is written, and
>>>>thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third
>>>>day:"
>>>>
>>>>On another note, I found a error in my Biblical Calendar overview.
>>>>Towards the end in the New Moon section the last sentence should read
>>>>"The crescent may be easily visible after twenty four to thirty six
>>>>hours depending on location, local conditions, lag time, etc."
>>>>
>>>>Carl
>>>>
>>>>Dr. Neville Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Carl,
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, I meant the Sabbath on the 29th, which precedes the New
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Moon, and
>>
>>
>>>>>thus explains the gap before the "first day of the week."
>>>>>
>>>>>Yours in Christ,
>>>>>
>>>>>Neville.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Dr. Neville Jones" wrote:
>>>>>Carl,
>>>>>
>>>>>In your opinion, is it possible that Christ's execution took
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>place on the
>>
>>
>>>>>day before a New Moon, thus explaining how he was in the memorial tomb
>>>>>for
>>>>>three days?
>>>>>
>>>>>Neville.
>>>>>
>>>>>Send instant messages to your online friends
>>>>>http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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