[geocentrism] Re: Aspden effect and Aether.
- From: "philip madsen" <joyphil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:59:45 +1000
Robert said,
Does ignoring GWW keep the analysis ‘fair and balanced’?
Yes I would say so for the simple reason anything within that book that comes
from general science, is free to all, whereas anything in GWW that is the
opinion of the authors, comes at a claim for money.
You continue to avoid relevant questions asked in this forum , insisting that
if one is to get your answer, we must pay for it..
If thats your stock response, what is the point of asking you anything. The
only worth you seem to have in the authors opinions is the Dollar .
Philip.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Bennett
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Aspden effect and Aether.
-----Original Message-----
From: geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:geocentrism-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of philip madsen
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 7:04 PM
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [geocentrism] Aspden effect and Aether.
I have changed the subject line since this is no longer really pertaining to
a geostat satellite, but to our aether question. I would question the post by
Robert Sungenis.
Puzzling - if GWW is being ignored, then why read the excerpt from the book
posted here?
Interesting that the two that challenge GWW content here are also the two
that haven’t read it. Is ignorance bliss?
We are assailed with problems from both sides of science. On the one side,
that of MS we get statements like this,
"The Adams motor is an example of a claimed perpetual motion or "over unity
device" capable of producing more energy than is supplied to it. Such claims
are generally viewed as pseudoscience by mainstream scientists. It is clear
that functional electric motors can be built by following his design
principles, but claims of greater than 100% efficiency are met with skepticism
and rejection. At a 1994 meeting, several such motors were demonstrated, but
according to supporters "none of the motors present were of sufficient
engineering quality to manifest the elusive over-unity effect."
And on the other hand, we get crackpot claims of all sorts of free energy
divices that will never work or do anything. The conspiracy nut in me tells me
that this is manufactured and quack encouraged interference. After all, real
money is energy. We can't have people dipping in and taking their own.
Keeping the middle road with a balanced analysis is what we should try to do.
Does ignoring GWW keep the analysis ‘fair and balanced’?
In the first wikipaedia statement, scorn is obvious, accompanied as it was
with
Adams motor is reportedly a perpetual motion machine. Such machines violate
the known laws of physics. Claims of the development of such devices are
considered pseudoscience by most scientists
No true "overunity" free energy investigator uses the term perpetual motion,
and none should ever claim energy from nothing, which is the only way the
second law could be violated. They correctly claim to have an energy SOURCE
which is for nothing.. free to use. Tidal energy is an easily verifiable
example. That the aether provides another source is not as yet verified.
certainly not in the public domain anyway, where it can be duplicated. It is
only because MS denies the existance of the aether, that they claim a
violation. That puts them out on a limb. But there is nothing new in that.
Hence I must say I was surprised to hear Allen quote GWW as a source of the
Aspden Effect . I was even more surprised to hear the authors confirm it, as
though they treated it as reality. Have they demonstrated the hardware and done
the experiment? I would not trust the written word of Aspden, buried as it is
amongst so much false and foolish science that surrounds thousands of
"perpetual Motion" free energy machines that never could work.
Have you disproved the AE claim experimentally? The schematic is given in the
section.
Have you done the M-M exp, to verify the null result?
My answer is the same – because there’s not time nor $ nor enough interest to
personally validate every claim. Evaluating the truthfulness of human
testimony is what we do constantly every day. If evidence of fraud or
incompetence by Aspden is presented I will certainly entertain it . But such a
demonstration has not yet been made…..
The Aspden effect is credible because many other similar anomalies involving
the motion of spinning objects are discussed in GWW, such as
Probably there are ‘free energy’ frauds out there, but most of the GWW
examples were done by credentialed scientists.
I am not denying the existence of the aether. But I dispute certain claims
the authors make. Taking this for example.. assuming the stated action was true
and does occur,
"With a machine rotor of 800 gms, its kinetic energy and that of the drive
motor is less than 15 joules, contrasting with the 300 joules needed to spin up
from rest.After five minutes or more, the machine is stopped, but can be
restarted up to speed in the same or opposite direction with only 30 joules,
only 10% of the original effort, provided that the machine is not stopped more
than about a minute. This totally violates all known laws of physics. "
Why is any law violated? Taking the articles own analogy , (similar to
stirring up a glass of water and then removing the stirring rod, while the
glass itself remains still). we have the implication that original inputed
energy was stored in some way , energy that was supplied by the original effort
of winding up the motor. This conplies with the conservation of energy, in the
same way that energy can be stored in any flywheel or in the aether as a
magnetic field. No new energy is obtained.
Further, when I read ,
"The experimental evidence is that there is something that is:
· spinning,
· invisible,
· having energy of motion,
· occupying the space within the machine rotor.,"
I must ask... what and whose experimental evidence? I repeat my question
Robert.
I repeat my answer, Philip. A collection of aether experiments for the last
250 years is summarized in GWW, as stated above.
Have you demonstrated the hardware and done the experiment? Or are you merely
trusting the word of Mr Aspden or others? I would trust your own experimental
evidence.
Suppose you say you did the AE exp. and disproved it. Why should I believe
you?
As regards the effects noted, such would be obvious, that as it is within the
rotor, it would be invisible, and as it is within the rotor, that the energy
could be molecular. There is no direct relation proved to an aether, other than
it can be certain that all magnetic fields are stored in the aether.
Why not E fields also?
The EM medium is different from this GI aether.
I look forward to further discussion and will comment further on the material
below, after I have finished studying the material on Harold Aspdens web site.
Philip.
Does the GWW section make claim that Aspden has a perpetual motion machine or
it’s over unity?
Or is the Aspden Effect just cited in support of aether detection?
This effect does violate all known laws of physics…. for closed systems,
which always are the understanding for conservation law application.
The effect of interest, however, is the hysteresis implication – the motor
‘remembers’ that it has been recently running. This is what is clearly
anomalous about the AE, energy issues aside.
To show that energy is supplied to the motor by the aether, Aspden must
carefully and precisely measure all forms of energy in the motor system, like
heat and radiation…. which he did not do (or at least, did not publish.). Until
this is done no claim of energy conservation violation can be made. It must be
shown that energy drawn from the aether is not later returned to it. This is
the science view of the issue.
On the side of Scripture and private revelation we know that the source of
aether energy comes from outside the universe, so we do expect that the aether
will be found to be a free energy source, though it may never be usefully
harnessed.
Robert B
----- Original Message -----
From: Sungenis@xxxxxxx
To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 12:21 AM
Subject: [geocentrism] Re: Geosynchronous satellites paper
In a message dated 6/29/2007 11:18:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
robert.bennett@xxxxxxx writes:
1. The Aspeden motor is a real observational effect not pseudo science
repeatable and demonstrable ( is also found In GWW cant remember the page..i
don't have the book in front of me right now.).
for the Aspden exp: Ps. 821, 882,1154,1158 inter alia.
It is now on page 429 in the new edition of the book. Here is the excerpt.
Aspden Effect (1995)
An Adams motor with a magnetized rotor and no electrical power input is
started on no load by a drive motor and brought up to operating speed of 3250
rpm, then runs steadily at that speed for two minutes. With a machine rotor of
800 gms, its kinetic energy and that of the drive motor is less than 15 joules,
contrasting with the 300 joules needed to spin up from rest.
After five minutes or more, the machine is stopped, but can be restarted up
to speed in the same or opposite direction with only 30 joules, only 10% of the
original effort, provided that the machine is not stopped more than about a
minute. This totally violates all known laws of physics. It is ten times easier
to spin the magnet once it has already been spinning. (The term for this is
hysteresis, a memory of prior physical states).
Energy within the magnet seems to continue “spinning” inside even when the
magnet is not moving (similar to stirring up a glass of water and then removing
the stirring rod, while the glass itself remains still). It will take less
energy to stir up the water in the glass again if you wait less than a minute
before trying. So it certainly appears that this energy in a magnet is in a
form of fluid motion, possibly spiraling in a vortex, like the water example.
The experimental evidence is that there is something that is:
· spinning,
· invisible,
· having energy of motion,
· occupying the space within the machine rotor.
This “something” has an effective mass density 20 times that of the rotor,
but spins independently and takes several minutes to decay/wind down, while the
motor itself comes to rest in a few seconds. Various machine configurations
tested indicated two dependencies:
· time of day
· compass orientation of the spin axis.
One machine with weak magnets showed evidence of gaining magnetic strength
with each test, as if permanently absorbing the ether energy.
Another separate experiment consisted of a reversible D.C. motor running in a
clockwise sense for two or three minutes, drawing from the power supply, but
then spontaneously slowing down, stopping, and then reversing rotation and
rapidly gaining speed, as if counter-clockwise was the preferred sense of
rotation. It was running well clockwise, with no external influence given to
change direction.
The basic motor used by Aspden consists of a central rotor either all north
out, or all south out, and high resistance coils.
Aspden rotor motor[1][1]
Aspden ether principles:
1) Extraction of energy from the ether does not violate the first law of
thermodynamics, conservation of energy, if energy flows from ether to matter.
If the ether delivers energy to run the motor, eventually that borrowed energy
is returned to the ether by generating heat and radiation.
2) Existence of the ether was not disproved by Einstein. Special
Relativity only says it is not necessary; General Relativity theory disguises
it as “space-time curvature,” while moderns call it “the vacuum.”
3) Ether has been measured in laboratories. The ether was probably first
detected by Sagnac in 1908, the experimental source of the modern ring laser
gyro. How can the speed of a laser beam traveling a circuit inside an optical
instrument detect rotation of that instrument, unless the beam is keeping a
fixed speed relative to something inside that instrument that does not share
its rotation? That something is the ether!
4) Its existence was not disproved by the Michelson-Morley experiment.
Michelson was trying to sense the Earth’s motion through the ether, but
violated the Miller condition for minimal ether shielding.
5) The ether reveals its existence when we have rotation, as in the
Adams motor.
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