Dear Allen, Just a point of clarification. In the 'non HC' drawing the camera is in one position whilst the earth rotates below it. Is this deliberate or should the camera positions be the same as the 'HC' drawing? This would mean that the ONLY difference between the two drawings is the angle of the ecliptic with respect to the stars. Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Allen Daves To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:44 AM Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing brand new for you One last thing, for the evening.....They say a picture speaks a thousand words...... Hopefully you will all be able to see this....brand new attached diagram. it illustrates the fundamental error in your argument...........