*From*: Regner Trampedach <art@xxxxxxxxxx>*To*: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx*Date*: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:17:39 +1100

Allen, This assembly of words is not making any sense: "......but mechanicaly that is not even posible requries contridictions in terms and defintions to accomplish such feets, as I have pointed out......" Please tell me what those mechanical impossibilities are - I see none. Please tell me what those contradictions are - I see none. Please do it clearly and briefly - Let's not get back to our old habits again. Regner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Quoting Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>: > The point i was making was the point you raised..."Again, not detectable by > the casual observer."......but mechanicaly that is not even posible requries > contridictions in terms and defintions to accomplish such feets, as I have > pointed out...... > > Regner Trampedach <art@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Quoting Allen Daves : > > > NO you can not, and that is the rub. HC claims there is no difference > between > > what the annual motion and the nightly motion produce. > > > That is not quite correct. I think I have found one of the misunderstandings > in this discussion. Please read carefully. > a) The daily rotation is around the celestial axis. > It produces the nightly star-trails. > We agree on that. > b) The annual orbital translation around the Sun occurs in the ecliptic. > This produces the paralactic ellipses, as I described in pt.5 of this post: > http://www.freelists.org/archives/geocentrism/11-2007/msg00917.html > "5) Parallax displays itself as an ellipse with the eccentricity > (oblateness) > determined by the ecliptic (not the celestial) latitude of the star. At > the [celestial poles] the paralactic motion over a year, will describe a > circle - at the ecliptic equator a star will go back and forth along > a straight line." > As Paul Deema pointed out in this post: > http://www.freelists.org/archives/geocentrism/11-2007/msg00921.html > The [celestial poles] should be changed to 'ecliptic poles'. > This is the annual motion - it is very small scale and will not be > observed by the casual observer. > I believe we agree on that. > c) The crucial part. > What has been interpreted as a separate annual rotation around the > celestial axis is nothing of the sort. > To recapitulate: > i) 1 tropical (Solar) day (24h00m) of the daily rotation puts the > observer in the same orientation with respect to the Sun. > ii) 1 sidereal (stellar) day (23h56m) of the daily rotation puts the > observer in the same orientation with respect to the stars. > Several people have referred to observations in the same direction > w.r.t Earth (e.g., straight up) at local midnight, as showing the > annual motion - see various figures by Allen and Neville. > That is not correct. > It is merely showing different phases of the daily motion. > The true period of the daily rotation, is the sidereal day. > Taking pictures every Solar day merely means that you let the Earth > rotate a bit further (in its daily rotation) before you take a picture. > It's not a separate movement. > Taking pictures every sidereal day will result in the annual paralactic > motion. Again, not detectable by the casual observer. > > I hope this helps, > > Regner > > > > So how are you going > > to show the motion, when HC itself calims there is no differnece between > the > > two..? However, HC can not do that the way HC is modeled. That is our > point! > > > > > > > > Paul Deema > wrote: > > > > Jack L > > This heliocentrist is NOT saying that the second (annual revolution) > motion > > cannot be detected. I have been describing how it CAN be detected for a > year > > and a half but unfortunately this seems to be in most everyone's dark > > cupboard into which none of you seem to have the courage look. > > I've tried to remove the subject from this emotional exclusion zone by > > shifting the phenomenon to Mars but that didn't work either. See several > > short posts "Translational motion of Mars". > > Egocentrism? Spelling error or is there a point here that I am missing? > > Paul D > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jack Lewis > > To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Monday, 19 November, 2007 9:08:38 PM > > Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing > > > > Dear All, > > In the heliocentric model it would appear that there are two movements > > taking place, which is not disputed, but the observations support only one > > movement- egocentrism. The heliocentrists seem to be saying that the > second > > movement cannot be detected for reasons I do not understand. Will it help > if > > I ask the question, why can't it be detected if it exists? We can't see > the > > moon turning actually but we know it does simply by the observations and > > dynamics involved. Therefore I would expect the helios to be able to do > the > > same. > > > > Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Allen Daves > > To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 8:52 PM > > Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing > > > > > > Ja, > > > > I agree with your drawings... Again no one is debating the fact that the > > annual motion will record the nightly motion....that is a FACT!...however > it > > is also a fact that a secondary motion would and must be present that is > not > > a assumption that is a physical fact, just as in the case of a orbital > > sander........Your conclusion which states just the opposite is an > assumption > > by definition.....What do you not understand? > > > > more in blue.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. > > > > > >

**Follow-Ups**:**[geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing***From:*Allen Daves

**References**:**[geocentrism] Re: 2 Axes of rotation - drawing***From:*Allen Daves

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