[GeoStL] Re: archiving and geolitter......
- From: Glenn <Glenn@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:22:42 -0600
-
VERY interesting and controversial topic on many levels.
Yep, archiving caches could create geolitter and that is why I *used*
to encourage cachers to do exactly as you mention. "The next one
out, pick up the remaining bits of trash." If you watch my logs
carefully you would have noticed that I just sent out a "As a favor,
next one out, please take a new container. " The cache was repaired
and is still alive.
That's what I *used* to do until it was very ,uh, directly pointed
out that there are several cache listing services around. Only one of
which is the groundspeak site (geocaching.com). It was also pointed
out to me that many caches could be "cross listed" on several of the
sites and just who am I to decide to go and mess with someone elses
game piece. What is junk in one guys eyes is just another game piece
to someone else. Their complaints were backed up by groundspeak. We
are basically a listing service, not the cache police, safety police,
or trash pick up service.
That complicated my "clean-up and cache rescue" plans greatly, to say
the least. If groundspeak was the only game in town, then me
removing a game piece would not effect much. However, when i remove
a piece of junk game piece that some other game may be using, I have
just created a giant problem for myself. At that point I would have
moved into the realm of a cache bandit removing junk caches just
because I didnt like the quality of the piece in the field. Been
there , done that and it is not a happy place to be.
Had I wished to continue on that path, i would have taken out every
junk piece of broken glad sandwhich boxes with scrap paper
masquerading as a geocache that I ran across. But then again, many
folks like cheap broken junk, who am i to personally judge cache
quality. I guess that is best done by customer feedback. If there
are enough complaints on junk caches, maybe others will think about
cache placement a little better. The giant problem there is that many
folks don't think about the "quality" of the cache placement (and
just what is quality anyway) , just that they finally placed a cache
and could get to play the game. We then get to visit a drainage ditch
on private property behind a mall someplace.
Back to the geolitter. It is the *sole responsibility* of the
person playing the game to decide how they will play the game. The
cache finder alone has to decide to scale to the top of an old bridge
or squeeze along the ledge of a steep cliff. In this case it is the
cache placer that needs to be responsible enough to place caches
where they can easily maintain them and then clean up their messes
when things get out of sorts, not some self appointed cache police
person somewhere. As far as I am concerned, If a cache placer lets
their cache deteriorate to the point to where one or more of the
listing services de-list their cache, it becomes litter. That issue
is then between the litter placer and the local authorities. I have
in the past notified local authorities on the whereabouts of some
local trash. I never heard back from anyone if the cache hider was
ticketed but it is a possibility. It was confirmed that the trash
was somehow made gone.
Would it be better if folks cleaned up after themselves? Yep.
Is it my responsibility to check to see if every piece of junk is
cross listed on every other cache listing service? Nope and I don't
care to get into the "lets pick up the garbage" service again.
It would be much better still if everyone would do a little fix-up
at each cache they visit. Wipe out the dirt, put some tape on a
cracked container, throw an extra logbook in a cache that is missing
one, maybe even a pencil or two. A LOT of people do this already by
the fact that there are so many nice caches around here but it is
clear that not everyone does since we still have a few caches that
are neglected.
How about an organized group "cache rescue" program? A group that I
was following in their early days thought that would be a good idea
for all the right reasons. They took a look at the MoGeo cache rescue
program and set one up of their own. They had a person or two on the
"caches that need help" committee, they kept track of caches that
were in distress and helped to make them better by finding someone
that would be willing to adopt them or just go get them and fix them
up. It all looked pretty good on paper. It was a disaster in real
life. Cachers that owned some caches on "the list" were "irritated"
that someone had decided that *there* cache was trash and it was put
on the list. Long missing cache owners of some caches that were
retrieved for repair all of a sudden arose from the dead claiming all
sorts of cache thievery and tampering by the local "cache
police". It was ugly to the bone and seriously divided the group and
community. I haven't checked in a while now but last time I did,
they were still fighting. My thoughts.. tread very lightly in that
neighborhood.
To find caches that need help all you need to do is run a PQ of all
the disabled caches in Missouri. That will get you about 40-50
caches at any given time. It used to be around 400 caches the 1st
time I started dealing with them.
Another way to dig deeper is to set up enough PQ's to cover all the
caches in the area. Load them into a database in GSAK then start
running searches of the logs looking for words like wet, damp,
cracked, cache missing. Guns, pocket knife, fireworks ect can also
find some interesting situations. I also set up a few scans that
look for No Finds. I search for caches with 3 and then 4 or more no
finds as their most recent logs. I also search for the log type of
"needs archive".
All of this works based on someone having to make a comment in the
cache logs that you can easily find. Many times people will not say
anything. "Took Nothing/Left nothing" ect... "It was a nice day for a
walk..." "The trees were nice..." All these things sort of dance
around the topic of "This cache is Trash with a Cracked Lid and Wet
logbook. This pile of trash now consists of green goo and worms." If
everyone were clear about the condition of the caches, finding the
trash caches would be even easier and the cache owners would be aware
of problems.
Playing around with the search capabilities of GSAK can yield a lot
of information about a cache. The deeper you want to dig, the more
info you can find.
Lots to discuss in these areas.
glenn
At 01:00 PM 11/8/2005, you wrote:
>-
>Does not that result in geotrash? Would not it be better to post a note on
>the cache page asking the next cacher to remove the cache? That would make
>sure there is no geotrash left. But then again we cannot forget Bad Karma.
>Container broke and owner ignoring the problem for a long time (not to
>mention the cache was buried in violation of the rules with numerous
>complaints on the cache). But what happened when someone removed the cache?
>You and others jumped all over him for getting rid of the geotrash. IMHO,
>letting someone remove the cache is the better option. Is there a plan to
>get rid of all the containers you just archived? I know the owner is
>supposed to, but what if they don't?
>
>Jim Bensman
>"Nature Bats Last"
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:geocaching-
> > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Glenn
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:09 AM
> > To: SLAGA
> > Subject: [GeoStL] Log reading and note writing ......
> >
> > -
> > Since I have been pretty much too sick to move much [1] [2], I have
> > been using all this spare time to read thru my cache listings of
> > caches needing repair or that are disabled needing archiving.
> >
> > I deeply regret if any of your caches have been caught in the sweeps
> > but it is something that unfortunately needs to be done every now and
> > then to keep the geocaching "playing field" as fresh and clean as
> > possible. No one likes to find a mouldy box of wet goo. Believe me,
> > it is the hardest thing that needs doing as I really hate to disable
> > or archive caches.
> >
> >
> > [1] Nothing super serious, just a constant sinusitis that has gotten
> > worse instead of better. So, yes, I do have a head full of nasty poo,
> > which is no real surprise to anyone. :-)
> >
> > [2] Even my hair hurts. I didn't think hair could hurt, it feels real
> > weird. Thats just not right!
> >
> >
> > ----------------
> > Glenn,
> > Missouri Geocachers Assoc http://www.MoGeo.com
> > *THE* Forums for Mo & Ks. http://mogeo.ipbhost.com/index.php?
> >
> > Dave's Handy Hiding Hints http://www.ratisher.com/geocache_hiding.htm
> > MOGA 2005 Winners ... Check it out! http://moga.geostl.com
> >
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>
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----------------
Glenn,
Missouri Geocachers Assoc http://www.MoGeo.com
*THE* Forums for Mo & Ks. , the most active forums on the
'net http://mogeo.ipbhost.com/index.php?
Add yourself to the Geocachers Map, http://www.frappr.com/missourigeocachers
Dave's Handy Hiding Hints http://www.ratisher.com/geocache_hiding.htm
MOGA 2006 ... Check it out! http://tinyurl.com/7l5nh
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