[GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar

-
Jim, what you don't know is that *I* did say something to that individual. 
Not in front of people, but in private. It was briefly discussed and we went 
on. I did not make an issue out of it and demand Paul issue discipline to 
all SLAGA members. I was just upset that this morning, I wake up and see all 
this in the newsgroup and I was dragged into it. I don't appreciate racism 
and sometimes jokes are like that. I dealt with it how I thought it would be 
best. I am still friends with the person you mention and we go on with life.

I think everyone can agree with this. What I can't agree with is the fact 
that it has come to this..


Mike

Tired of Spam??
Here's your solution..
See: http://www.spamarrest.com/affl?4001050

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Bensman" <junkmailno@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 7:03 PM
Subject: [GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar


> -
> Mike,
>
> When problems with racism first happened in SLAGA, it was you who stepped 
> in
> and got the situation under control.  You gained my utmost respect for 
> that.
> You got the problems fixed and you agreed to personally take 
> responsibility
> to make sure the problems did not reoccur.  You set up an email address to
> be sent to you for complaints to make sure they were taken care of.  I
> greatly appreciated that.
>
> That is why I was so utterly shocked when the person you dealt with the 
> fist
> time told such an utterly vile and hateful joke with you standing next to
> him.  This joke was 100 times more vile and hateful than the first one 
> that
> caused the first blowup. I do not see how a joke could be more vile and
> hateful than that one.
>
> You wonder why I did not come to you for help with the situation.  You 
> were
> there when it happened and you had told me you were personally going to 
> deal
> with any future problem like that.  So I hope you can understand why I 
> felt
> a need to explore other options to get the situation addressed.  Like I 
> said
> in my previous message, it was Paul not me who told people about the web
> site.  I was still trying to get the officers to address the situation in 
> a
> responsible manner.  Actually, I was thinking about talking to you about 
> the
> situation.
>
> You say I do not want people to come to MOGA and events.  That simply is 
> not
> true.  I want events where people do not have to worry about hearing hate
> speech.  If my goal was to get people to not come to events, I would have
> done things like post messages on the MOGA page/forum, talked to IL
> Department of Natural Resources, and I know lots of reporters.  While I
> cannot say everything I have done was the best way to get this resolved, I
> can say my goal is to make geocaching a hate-free sport and my guiding
> principle on what tactic to take has been to be the least harmful to SLAGA
> and geocaching.
>
> "Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its
> vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It
> causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, 
> and
> to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."
> Martin Luther King Jr.
>
> The hate I heard expressed at three straight events, made me decide
> something needed to be done to stop it.  That is what this is all about.
> IMHO, hate unchecked in SLAGA is a threat to SLAGA.
>
> Jim Bensman
> "Nature Bats Last"
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: geocaching-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:geocaching-
>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mike Griffin
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 5:50 PM
>> To: geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar
>>
>> -
>> Really don't blame you but that is exactly what he wants. We had a very
>> nice
>> lunch today. I guess there was about 25 people there.. The fact that we
>> all
>> had a good lunch and enjoyed each others company, proves that we all get
>> along just fine. Jim started the website and dragged everyone into it.
>> Sooner or later it was going to make it here on the list. I was never
>> approached by Jim on these recent issues and I think that is what made me
>> so
>> mad. I wish he would have come to me as a friend. He took the opportunity
>> to
>> take a situation that happened 2 years ago and act as if I did nothing to
>> correct it. He never came to me and asked for my help. I always 
>> considered
>> Jim a friend. We cached together, I shared my campsite with him many
>> times.
>> I cooked him my favorite Mushroom melts.. I thought we had a friendship
>> that
>> was valued more than cheap trash talk because he didn't get his way.
>>
>> I blew up.. For that I apologize.. MOGA is a non political event. We will
>> not discuss such things at the event. I, for one, am really hurt that Jim
>> included me in this mess when all I have ever done was share my
>> friendship..
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Tired of Spam??
>> Here's your solution..
>> See: http://www.spamarrest.com/affl?4001050
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "DRM" <drmdcm@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <geocaching@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 3:55 PM
>> Subject: [GeoStL] Re: You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar
>>
>>
>> > -
>> > I just want to say that I have never been to a SLAGA
>> > or MOGO event before and was looking forward to the
>> > event this March. I have paid my fee and sent in my
>> > waver. I have been collecting JEEP TRAVEL BUGS to
>> > bring for however the group distributes the travel
>> > bugs at these events. However, after reading the
>> > forums today I will not feel comfortable or feel safe
>> > bring my son who is eight to this event. I don't know
>> > many of the members or their backgrounds to know who
>> > may go "Postal".
>> > I have never met the two cachers who where offended or
>> > know what the "offensive" joke was that was said so as
>> > a member of SLAGA how am I liable and now labled
>> > "Racist"?
>> >
>> > --- tklnhl & kyd <sydstyr@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> >> -
>> >> _______________________________________-
>> >> > (But not to me, with the others in the group who
>> >> are
>> >> > anxious to have an intelligent discussion.)
>> >> >
>> >> > Paul Konopacki
>> >> Hey now ...
>> >>
>> >> ++++
>> >>
>> >> Tried to read through the "Breaking News" update and
>> >> got a bit lost when Bush started spying on  the
>> >> Quakers.
>> >>
>> >> It's a shame, because, if presented to the group in
>> >> a calm, logical way, I probably would have been on
>> >> Jim's "side."
>> >>
>> >> As it stands, the message is lost in the
>> >> presentation/attack.
>> >>
>> >> This website is the first most of us have even been
>> >> made aware of a concern. My guess is that if
>> >> presented to the group/list  in a calm,
>> >> nonconfrontational way  (without naming names  as
>> >> has been done in  the past), that another round of
>> >> selfcensoring would have taken place.
>> >>
>> >> SLAGA is still, relatively speaking,  a group in its
>> >> infancy. We (my family) and I were not there "in
>> >> the beginning". But I'll go out on a  limb and say I
>> >> doubt  that those who were there in the beginning
>> >> imagined that  geocaching and SLAGA would grow as it
>> >> has and would result in what  it is becoming.
>> >>
>> >> It is also because those people were willing to go
>> >> waaaaaaaaay  out on an even larger limb that anyone
>> >> in  this group has the opportunity to create
>> >> websites, or send email to a list against the group.
>> >> Without those people there would be no  group. There
>> >> would be no  events in which to hear derogatory
>> >> things;  no mail lists in which to discuss the
>> >> merits of membership dues -- no website to track our
>> >> stats (even if we try  to say it's NOT about the
>> >> numbers).
>> >>
>> >> As SLAGA continues to grow there will be problems.
>> >> One month (and  I'm ignoring things that happened
>> >> TWO and HALF  years ago that everyone admits were
>> >> settled) is  NOT enough time for a group of busy
>> >> people to offer acceptable options.  Especially
>> >> during this time of year when most have families,
>> >> end of year commitments, illness  etc.
>> >>
>> >> As an individual, Paul made a  legitimate offer  for
>> >> you to have your voice heard. No it wasn't exactly
>> >> what you wanted but it would have been  a start.
>> >> Perhaps it would have paved the way for other
>> >> feedback opportunities. Perhaps others would have
>> >> heard your concern and also privately contacted  the
>> >> officers with similar concerns.
>> >>
>> >> Now, I will violate my own rule and make this
>> >> personal.
>> >>
>> >> Jim, IMHO, you missed a great opportunity. Do you
>> >> really not recognize  that you are a geocaching
>> >> "presence" that many wonder about?  Your caches and
>> >> placements are excellent; logs are interesting and
>> >> when it comes to local natural resources your
>> >> knowledge appears to be unlimited. Your caches have
>> >> taken us places we would never have thought  to go.
>> >> When we were able  to make it to the Christmas party
>> >> YOU were the first person my 8 year old daughter
>> >> wanted to  get a look at (Molly was the first but
>> >> she has too many legs).   I had to  convince her
>> >> though  that  based on my impression, you might not
>> >> take it as a compliment if a laughing 8 year old
>> >> girl walked up to you and said, "Dude..  we HATE you
>> >> .. but I mean  that only in  the most loving way
>> >> possible." Her best times, not only in gecocaching
>> >> but in her little outdoor  life, have been getting
>> >> lost in the woods with her daddy looking for YOUR
>> >> caches. Just mention the name Myotis in  our house
>> >> and there are at first groans a
>> >>  nd lots of "oh nos" followed  by  "When do we
>> >> go???".  You have been making a statement. A
>> >> positive one whether you are aware  of it or not.
>> >>
>> >> (end what appears to be a  mini lovefest here)
>> >>
>> >> You have obviously worked hard to  protect the
>> >> natural resources that you love. Why not do the same
>> >> for the SLAGA organization? The clue is that the
>> >> tactics that work for the US Government do not
>> >> translate well into the interpersonal level. Just
>> >> because it is individuals involved does not mean
>> >> that things move faster. But it does mean that the
>> >> individuals tend to take things personally and react
>> >> on a personal  level.
>> >>
>> >> Now, do some of the founding members have different
>> >> backgrounds, values and senses of humor than the
>> >> nonfounding members?  Uh..  I  CAN say ..    YES to
>> >> that. LOL.    This is NOT  the local  boyscouts,
>> >> girlscouts, philanthropy or entrepreneur group.  Not
>> >> the Army, the Knights of Columbus  or the local
>> >> coven.  There are no pledges to be signed and
>> >> memorized. No secret handshakes. (That *I* am aware
>> >> of .. hmmmm  ... ) No higher,  altruistic goals
>> >> except for CITO. Just people looking for a reason to
>> >> head  into the  woods with latest technology. And
>> >> they happened to be able to use the Internet to find
>> >> SLAGA. And now this..
>> >>
>> >> As it is, the issue is no longer a concern about
>> >> individual behavior in a group,  geo setting, but
>> >> has become about one person and his past
>> >> activities/current presentation and one or  two
>> >> "official" SLAGA members reaction.
>> >>
>> >> And then somehow  the Quakers got involved and I'm
>> >> not even sure they use a GPS.
>> >>
>> >> Also goes to show what must go on behind the scenes
>> >> that we know nothing  about.
>> >>
>> >> It's my understanding that the officers get their
>> >> pay in cookies. They'd better be really really big
>> >> ones.
>> >>
>> >> Nancy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________
>> > Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about.
>> > Just $16.99/mo. or less.
>> > dsl.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
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>
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